Bob's Out, Who's In?

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreigner and Hutch, wheeling and dealing back room deals for Robert Salah. Who'd he bring? Who's he taking? We got a lot to get into. Who, who thought that we were going to get a couple days off? Jake, what idiots we were. [00:00:20] Speaker B: I don't know. I, it was, it was somehow like, I think we forgot, like, I, I knew Salah was interviewing for all those and that it was likely with all the openings that he would get a job, but I sort of, I just forgot that it was going to happen imminently. And then it happened. I went, oh, yeah, right, right, yeah, that's happening. [00:00:39] Speaker A: It was. I'm going to take a bit of a me or I'm going to take a hit right now. I didn't do a good enough job relaying a lot of the conversation that had been happening that, that I was privy to. Like, Bob, Bob Sala hired a new agent. You don't hire a new agent to not take a job. And yesterday it was pretty clear that this was going down. I went, I went out and did my cryptic tweeting thing of here. You know, we'll get into the guys that they should consider and all that. But you had. The way it was described to me, and I agreed with, though did not properly bring forward enough, especially over the last two or three weeks, is you have a lot of candidates out there. First off, 30% of the league needed a new head coach. There were two guys who are retreads that were obviously going to get whatever job they wanted, that being Stefanski in Atlanta and John Harbaugh who went to the Giants after he got $25 million a year. So is that true? Yeah, yeah, he got 100. [00:01:44] Speaker B: Is that, wait, is that real? [00:01:45] Speaker A: It's real. He got $25 million. He got paid more than his brother, who's getting paid more than 20, if I recall correctly. [00:01:53] Speaker B: So I saw it, all right, It's. I see 20 million, but holy Jesus, 20 million. [00:01:59] Speaker A: Saying, to be fair, when I, when I, when I first read that, it was roughly 4 o' clock in the morning and I was on about 90. [00:02:08] Speaker B: Minutes of sleep, so still an insane figure. Anyway, continue. [00:02:11] Speaker A: More than, more than I would have given him. But, you know, I don't have that kind of money to flash. I guess the mars do mean who, who knew they could have, you know, signed a running back? So you have all that and then you look at the other guys who are getting, who are getting interviews and you're like, okay, some of these guys are just not ready for primetime yet. Like Both of the Kubia should not be getting head coaching jobs this year. If they do another good job next year, then, yeah, they kind of move forward in the line. You're talking about, you know, Matt Nagy getting interviews in places and this was his only chance. [00:02:44] Speaker B: Like, he doesn't have a job now. [00:02:47] Speaker A: I guess they let his contract expire in Kansas City. I'm not quite sure what's. [00:02:50] Speaker B: And now it's B enemies back there. So, yeah, he's just. [00:02:53] Speaker A: Yeah, the enemy who. You know, as much as I was like, y' all need to pump the brakes on B enemy back in the day. Like, did a very good job as the Bears run game guy this year. I mean, good job. He got a little bit. [00:03:03] Speaker B: I don't think anyone's really. I think the idea of him is like a offensive coordinator is not, you know, I think he was simultaneously overrated and underrated. I think people were like, he should be a head coach. And it's like, well, some people shouldn't be head coaches. And there's. That was much other context involved in that. And I think people didn't understand the context, which is fair. But there was like a stubbornness of. Of the narrative that he wasn't getting a fair shake, which was inaccurate. [00:03:32] Speaker A: Correct. So you then add in, like, okay, Mike McDaniel, like, is the bell of the ball right now. And did Mike McDaniel do enough to be the belle of the ball right now? Effectively this. You know, you're looking at both of the. The coordinators for the Rams in. In Mike LaFleur and Chris Shula. You're looking at. I'm sorry, I can't pronounce his last name. I won't even try. In Evero. Evro. In. In is great. The offensive coordinator under Liam Cohen in Jacksonville is like 30 and a lot of people really, like, there are a lot of names that 2027 coaching cycle. People really like. Orinski. Yes, apologies, whatever. [00:04:19] Speaker B: You've never gotten a name right in your life. [00:04:21] Speaker A: And honestly, it's part of the show at this point. All of these guys are going to be. Or the majority of these guys, if they continue on their trajectory, are going to be like really hot shot candidates. There was no hot shot candidate this year. So Bob Sala is getting a lot of interviews off of a job that, like, you could look at it both ways. Like, did he do a great job this year? Objectively, no, he did not do a great job this year. Did he do a good job this year? I think that there's an argument to be made there. Did he do a bad job this year? He could make an argument there, too. [00:04:56] Speaker B: I think he did an overwhelmingly good but not great job, given the circumstances. And I think his general inflexibility, which is part of what, what we'll get to with Gus Bradley and that tree, is a belief in players and a belief in technique and executing a simplistic scheme over trying to solve problems with complexity and battling scheme with scheme. And it's not to say that they don't do things to combat scheme, but there is a general belief in letting players go and being straightforward and letting them understand simple plays and simple philosophy, to let them, quote, unquote, play fast. That's the core tenet of those coaching staffs. And for d', Ameco, again, it's. When it, when you got the guys, it works great. [00:05:54] Speaker A: And it's not like Mike McDonald's out here being like, I got a cool new play for us, and we'll get into that in a little bit. If you got the dudes, you can be simple. If you don't have the dudes, you need to be complicated. It goes in a complete contradiction to my general stance on offensive football, which is you need cool dudes to do cool stuff, and if you don't have cool dudes, you need to buck, you know, tamper it down a little bit here, maybe a trick play or two, but that's outside of the realm of the norm. [00:06:22] Speaker B: It's. [00:06:23] Speaker A: This is all to say that Bob was a very attractive candidate in this cycle with a preponderance of jobs, and he got to pick from a pretty good selection. I think the Raiders were very interested. I think that the, the Cardinals were really hoping he'd get there. It sounds like he didn't. [00:06:41] Speaker B: Also, also, why would you. Why on earth. They are going to end up with a, I think a pretty weak hire because you have a weak owner and in that division, you want to feel like, all right, we're going to have resources to combat this sort of existential threat, threat of the Seahawks. And then whatever McVeigh and Shanahan have, which is always going to be competitive, and you go, well, I don't have a chance. I don't have any. This is. And if this is going to be. [00:07:08] Speaker A: Higher man whose name I can't pronounce from, they should go absolutely bold and brash and over the top and go take that Jacksonville offensive coordinator Grant Udinsky. [00:07:18] Speaker B: Okay. And just hope Shield Haas, whatever from the. [00:07:22] Speaker A: Just, just. [00:07:24] Speaker B: Yeah, the, the Rams, one of their Coordinators. [00:07:27] Speaker A: I mean, there's. You have to be bold and brash if you're the Cardinals, because I do think there's enough talent there. And, you know, that's what the Rams had to do. Right. Like, Sean McVeigh was not a slam dunk. Higher. Kyle was an easy one. Kyle was an easy one. [00:07:41] Speaker B: Right. [00:07:41] Speaker A: He was just coming off one of the greatest offensive seasons of all time with the Atlanta Falcons. He made Matt Ryan an mvp. He's a hot shot candidate. There was no hot shot candidate this year, save for John Harbaugh and maybe Stefanski. But that really just tells you that there was no hot shot candidate. I'm sure that if Mike Tomlin had wanted to coach, he could have picked whatever job he wanted. That tells you something. And. [00:08:02] Speaker B: Right. [00:08:03] Speaker A: You know, now we're also in a strange situation where I cannot remember for the life of me and this, this will pivot us. So many coaches that are on the staffs of guys who just got fired being, like, retained. So Jeff Ulbricht sticking around in Atlanta as, like, sort of a kind of quasi package deal. I think that's a good decision by Atlanta. But, like. And this is where we get into the Jim Schwartz of it, all. [00:08:28] Speaker B: Right. [00:08:28] Speaker A: There's a lot of, oh, well, no, no, no, we fired the head coach, but the coaching staff is still underemploy. I've never heard that before at the NFL level. It's very bizarre to me, frankly. [00:08:39] Speaker B: It's super strange. And there's like, you know, we can get into it a little bit with, like, Kubiak and Shanahan saying he can't go, and. And all that sort of stuff. There's a. There's a level of complexity there, but it is fascinating. I really am curious how the Schwartz thing plays out. If the Browns say, you know what you've earned head coaching job, or if they say, all right, we're bringing in like, Mike McDaniel or something and. Or anyone else, what. What they do at that point and decide, do we force you to play under this contract? If he wants to. If he says, I actually like this head coach, I have a feeling that if you are with an organization that long and you don't get the head coaching job, you're going to want to leave. At least that would be my human instinct. And how they handle that will be fascinating. And that's why I think it's a little bit different than the Kubiak thing with Shanahan and like, some other coordinators who get blocked from quote unquote lateral moves. I think there is a similarity in some respects, but it's a little different when you're interviewing with that organization for the top job and then they theoretically don't give it to you. [00:09:43] Speaker A: It's pretty straightforward. Okay. The 49ers, they view, I believe, officially titled Clay Kubiak as their offensive coordinator. Correct. [00:09:54] Speaker B: It's not like a run game coordinator pass. He's. He is their offensive coordinator. [00:09:57] Speaker A: He's their offensive. [00:09:58] Speaker B: He did intentionally. [00:09:59] Speaker A: He does. Yes. And he does not call plays. The same thing happened with Mike McDaniel. And there was for two straight years people saying, hey, we'd like Mike McDaniel to come and call place for us as our offensive coordinator. And Kyle Shanahan's like, you can write off like, I don't care. There's a reason we paid him offensive coordinator money so that he's my right hand man, but I call the plays. The same thing is going to be happening, I imagine, with Matt LaFleur. Yeah. No, Mike Leflore. Sorry. I would imagine that. I. Yeah. Well, it's a very incestuous situation, really. Like an unbelievable old boys club. It's like we have to deal with all these slowics and Kubiax and LaFleur's and McDaniel, McDonald and McDaniel. Those two have nothing to do with each other. But it's just interesting. The same thing's going to happen with Mike Leflore because you have to imagine that that's going to be Bob's first call once Mike McDaniel tells him no to be the offensive coordinator. But why would Sean. Why would Sean McVeigh let him go? Why would he. Why would he let him leave? Like, oh, it's a better opportunity for him. I mean, maybe he's got somebody who's like, I think this guy's better and I want to promote him up. That's the only circumstance in which this works. And we're kind of running out of play callers. That's what I'm coming to. Like, I don't know who this next wave is, but we've run out of Kubiax and lafleur's. [00:11:22] Speaker B: And which I think is interesting that like Ben Johnson's explicit hatred of that. That tree is. Is pretty funny because it must be like, there's another way to do this. There are other guys who are smart out there, but there is just. It has infiltrated the entire league. [00:11:38] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:11:39] Speaker B: Where, you know, overwhelmingly teams are running outside zone. It's not as much play action, but there Is, like, still an element of that. That's really goddamn effective. [00:11:47] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:11:48] Speaker B: If you look at Darnold stats with play action. Yeah. And. And. And that's just what's permeated the league because it's been effective, and it presents consistent problems. And the core philosophy evolves. I mean, the core philosophy is to take advantage of mismatches and take advantage of space, is to create space and find ways to exploit space as much as it is outside zone, which outside zone tends to create space for runners to play fast and have a lot of options, which I think is why Shanahan has tended to love the simplicity of the coordinators he's had, because he's let his guys play fast. You know, that's. That's sort of his guiding philosophy. Yes. [00:12:28] Speaker A: Yeah, that makes sense. Right? He. He's thinking about which defenses would hurt him most. And frankly, that's a pretty good guiding principle, seeing as everyone runs his offense more or less. But I'm with you. Ben Johnson's like, you know, I'm pretty clever, too. I didn't have to come from. He's basically like the kid who went to public school, and he's really angry at all the private school kids when they all get into the same school together. [00:12:49] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:12:49] Speaker A: And you know what? I get it. Fair play. Fair play to Ben Johnson. I'd be angry, too. [00:12:54] Speaker B: Also. I respect, like, explicit hatred and bad blood at a time where everybody's friendly. I love it. I need more good for the league. I think it's good for everybody. [00:13:03] Speaker A: I mean, we. We latch on to the fact that it's like, ooh, things are icy between friends. Like, it's a Bravo reality TV show or something. Like, that's as good as it gets. Ben Johnson's like, I want to kill him. And you're like, that's. That's good stuff right there. [00:13:17] Speaker B: You can see his teeth sort of like losing a layer every game where there's just sawdust coming out of his mouth. [00:13:23] Speaker A: It's good stuff. Okay, so the 49ers need a fifth defensive coordinator. [00:13:28] Speaker B: In fifth. [00:13:29] Speaker A: It's in five years. How about that? There's a sentence. Five defensive coordinators, five years. [00:13:33] Speaker B: You made it. You made it. [00:13:35] Speaker A: I'm trying, buddy. So a lot of thoughts on. On what Salah can do in Tennessee. Very interested to see what he pulls there. Obviously, Mike McDaniel still floating around. We only mention him because we love him on a personal level and as a play caller and what happens there. But I, I. The way that it needs to be Framed. Now Jake is Gus or the field. [00:13:58] Speaker B: Yeah. So there's. There's a couple ways to approach this. It's. What do we think will happen? What's sort of the logical. Easy. The easy route for the 49ers is to say no one's gonna hire Gus Bradley, and he's been with the scheme and he's gonna run sort of with solid runs. And our players are familiar with that, and they had nothing but good things to say about him and his storytelling. Sure. Path of least resistance. Right. [00:14:26] Speaker A: I think storytelling is so spot on. Oh, yeah. Such great stories. They. [00:14:30] Speaker B: I mean, literally, there were like, I was there yesterday, and it was like, yeah, he helped. He was in charge of the red zone, which they were very good at. And that sort of, again, you have to be. If your entire thing is, we're going to let you have yardage, but we're going to. We're going to bend, not break. Okay, maybe. Maybe. Maybe don't maybe bend a little less. Any pause. But. But sort of. That was like the. Gus is great to have around. To me, it sounds a little bit like, oh, we like this older guy. He's got some fun old stories to tell us. I just feel like the modern NFL has evolved a little quicker. And that's not to say that, like, running Cover three is innately bad. There's, you know, he and Salah and d', Amico, they like a mix of, like, running Cover three, Cover four, Cover two, they like to mix it up, but it's still like, you like zone principles, really, And. And it's gotten away from just cover three because. Started in 2018, where Kyle was destroying that and Salah was like, all right, I need to change and start running a lot more quarters. And there's a cover six mix in there. It's more complex than it used to be. Right. [00:15:40] Speaker A: Yeah, for sure. [00:15:41] Speaker B: At the same. At the same time, the guiding principles are simplicity. Simplicity and play fast and get really good players and let them play fast. And I think there is a level. This might sound harsh and. And maybe I'll regret it, but, like, I think there's a level of laziness in that, in defaulting to that when your players don't have that ability, when you don't have the scheme and you say, all right, well, this is what we run. And, you know, we're going to believe in our guys to get it done. It's like, well, they've shown you that they might not be able to get it done. So maybe. Maybe there's an alternative that might work a little bit more effectively. And that's why to me, when I look at the field, I see a ton of really interesting, exciting options. And I think if the 49ers were to say, let's default to Gus Bradley just as the option and not really take a serious wide view, and they have to move quick because things are moving quick, but if they don't go out there and obviously you try, I think Schwartz at the top of the list, Morris after him. We'll see what happens with McDermott, whether there's another job out there for him. Right. But like, there's some clear candidates that I would look, look at there, Schwartz being number one. We'll get into that in a bit. Morris number two. But there's a ton of guys I mentioned that are like young, either partial coordinators or coaches like the safeties coach for the Texans, which again, similar philosophy, but like, you know, young guy who's probably going to evolve the scheme a little bit quicker than someone who's been around for a while. I just think there's a lot of intriguing options out there and they would be irresponsible not to really take them seriously. [00:17:19] Speaker A: The word that you used, and I think this is the one that you were concerned about saying lazy is spot on. It would be lazy because laying out everything you did, 100% agree with the analysis. If you want your players to just play fast, we're going to keep things simple so they don't have to think. Because not thinking means playing fast. That's a great philosophy from 10 years ago. And if you have. And by the way, it is entirely dependent on having really good players, because if you have bad players and you're not having them think, well, now they're just overtly bad, but doing it in a, in a faster tempo. So why wouldn't you take good players and do cool things with them the way that Robert Salad, to his credit and detriment, tried to do at the beginning of the year for the 49ers. And it would just be so lazy and it would be a sign of, I think, institutional fault to say the least, because they have time and time again over these last five years just taken the easy option. Now it worked out when you have d' Amico Ryan's as your backup and it's obvious. But, but even that was a. That was the hardest option of all of them. Okay. And they've been particularly lazy in how they've approached their process on this. It's a, It's Always like, a shock. They were lazy in hiring Salah last year. Who else interviewed? No one. And if Bob took that Jacksonville job because Liam Cohen doesn't get on a plane at the last second out of Tampa, what are they left with? Who. Who are. Who's their defensive coordinator this year? [00:19:04] Speaker B: Right. [00:19:05] Speaker A: So let's take it like Wilkes. Oh, well, Steve Wilkes is a good defensive coordinator. Kyle apparently never had a conversation with him about defensive philosophy where he wants to coach from any of these things. That. Then over the first five, six weeks of the season, Kyle's like, whoa, wait a minute. What are we doing here? Now I have to coordinate the defense. They just say, oh, well, we didn't like Steve Wilkes. We just went to a Super Bowl. So we need to hire someone from within, even though we have no one from within who should be promoted. Let's just go to Nick Sorenson. That will be fine. Meanwhile, Fred was gonna kill him. Fred was gonna kill him. He hated him. I mean, he. Like, everyone likes Nick Sorenson. Cause he's an easygoing guy. That's how he stayed around for as long as he did. But, like, at least with Wils, Wilks was making commands. They were wrong, but he was saying things. He was trying. It was just wrong. Sorenson's like, what do you think? I don't know, guys. It's. What do you mean you don't know? You're the coordinator. And it's not like you have this unbelievable staff of tacticians who can back your up. Like, Kyle always has two or three little frat boy minions who can come up with good ideas. Like, they all just look like him and sound like him. And it's. It's the same. He. He's created an army of clones that are not as good, but ultimately do provide some value because they've been trained on the large language model of Kyle Shanahan's brain. So it's lazy to go to Gus Bradley. The only argument you can make for him is that. Is that he was good in the red zone. That's the only. And that was the one true positive quality of the 49ers defense. But he runs a lazy scheme. He doesn't. He doesn't have, like, a defensive philosophy other than bend but don't break. It's. It is one. It is so lame. It's. If they go that route. And okay, fine. If you end up on with Gus Bradley, make him win it. Do not go to default. [00:21:02] Speaker B: It's. It's not. Yeah, it's not that. Like, hiring Gus Bradley as your defensive coordinator is in and of itself a horrific choice. It's have a real process and if some of those younger guys you interview around the league just don't seem ready to take that on or they seem a little bit too ambitious or, you know, not quite right, or some of the other top candidates just aren't available or go elsewhere. Right. And you end up with Gus Bradley, that's not the worst thing in the world. [00:21:31] Speaker A: No. [00:21:31] Speaker B: Right. [00:21:31] Speaker A: It's a nice fallback option. Don't take your fallback option to start. [00:21:35] Speaker B: Agreed. Agreed. And so I want to give you one stat. I text Dieter the stat. Yeah. When he was God, it was, it was going into his last season with the Colts, he did not run a single simulated pressure in 2023. Not one. Not one. Which that's not to say that like running simulated pressures are like one type of, of pressure package is like an eight league, but it, it like is explicit proof of like a lack of complexity. And you saw the exasperation with, with Colts fans and people following the team of like they didn't do much in terms of what they added going into his final season to, to say, all right, we need to evolve this, we need to change this. It's like, no, we're gonna, we're gonna Trust Just like DeForest Buckner and Grover Stewart, great players to like win up front and our, and our front's gonna win and we're not gonna really do much. We're gonna be straightforward and believe in our scheme. And I just think that is a, that is a stagnant way to approach an ever evolving league. And I would want, if I was Kyle Shanahan and the threat is like if you hire a younger guy that you lose them in a year. I would rather do that, move the scheme forward and evolve and take a real shot at being complex and challenging next year than just saying, all right, well this guy, like, we might not lose him and he can stick around for a few years, but like he, he. It's medium risk, medium reward, I think. [00:23:03] Speaker A: And you have a defense that's not in a position to play. Status quo. [00:23:07] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:23:09] Speaker A: The idea that, oh well, the. Everything is set. I mean and you can made this argument with d' Amico like, everything's fine. We have a great roster. If you're just sharp and can motivate men, everything's going to take care of itself. I, I obviously d' Amico did more than that. I thought he was more tactically inclined to try things. He did a really Good job. He also just didn't screw stuff up, which is an incredible testament to him. [00:23:35] Speaker B: Unlike followers, again, it's understanding your opponent and calling, even if it's a basic coverage, is calling the right coverage against that offense. More often than not, it's understanding how they want to attack you. And that's why, like, simplicity. If you have the pieces can win if you have like a sharp understanding of how an offense wants to exploit you. [00:23:57] Speaker A: But then let's just go back to Bradley here and let's talk about the Colts. So you brought up that stat. How do I want to phrase this? No one shed a tear when Gus Bradley's contract expired in Indianapolis. Obviously every fan hates defense. The defensive coordinator at the team that has a bad defense like that goes without saying. They were bog standard at best. They were frankly worse than that. They regressed hard as the season went along. Their linebackers went to hell. They had no secondary whatsoever. He couldn't develop anybody. They have, you know, two of the best defensive linemen and a bunch of young pass rushers. They could barely get to the quarterback. It was a hot mess last year or two years ago now in Indianapolis and his contract was up after three years and there was no conversation about extending it before the season. They just let it die again. Lazy route. But in that case they upgraded, right? The yellow man shows up and immediately look at that. We're so good. And it's not like they. They had Charvarius Ward the whole season or Sauce Gardner, but for like two games, like, it was more or less the same personnel across the board. And that was for most of the season, an impressive defense. Gus was the defensive coordinator on a team that had a defensive minded head coach in an era where defenses could play fundamentally different football. This was all great 15 football fricking years ago, right? Like, this is all fine. When Russ Wilson was on his rookie contract, like, I don't know how to put this any clearer. And he hasn't adapted. He got his jobs, he failed in his jobs. And let's not forget why they brought him in in the first place, because Bob had so much leverage in being hired by the 49ers. Oh, I could just take a year off and go to tv. I'm charming. I got a house in New York. I'll just go do CBS or whatever for a year and then I'll get another job next year. I don't have to come back to the San Francisco 49ers. [00:25:58] Speaker B: He's charming every time he goes, that's a great Question. Everyone lights up. I mean, you love. [00:26:03] Speaker A: He's handsome and he's smart and he's charming and he is, you know, and he has this Persona of like, that's the kind of defensive coordinator I want where, like, he's all business on the field, but what a guy off of it. I like Bob a lot. I got no problems with Bob. It's just merely. He. He can. He can cover up some of his deficiencies, or at least this team's deficiencies. He can make it seem like everything is sunny and great. And he. He got Jed York to bring Gus Bradley in to be his Mr. Miyagi for a year and tell stories and be around and be the good vibes guy and, like, in a literal way, be his, like, personal assistant in the sense of we asked Gus a million times in the preseason, like, what is it you do here? Like, I like, Sorry, but like, what are you doing here? One, I guess bringing his son in to be a depth quarterback. So that was fun. It's like a Dylan Raiola situation or a Danny Manning back in the day. It's like, really? Then, okay. And so there was that. And then he was like, whatever Bob, whatever Robert wants me to do, I'll do. Like, just whatever Robert wants me to do, I'll do. Which I guess is the right answer. But when. That's your implicit direction on when to show up. And Bob's like, can you just look at Red Zone for me? Like, the best case scenario for the 49ers right now is that Salah feels such a way about Gus Bradley that he brings him to be his defensive coordinator who does nothing in. In Tennessee. That's the 49ers best case scenario, so that they don't have to fall in to the trap of laziness because Kyle and John are tired of interviewing people, even though they've never really done it. [00:27:47] Speaker B: Yeah, I think. I think we made our point clear on. On Guess. I think we want to, like, we should explain why. Like, okay, let me. [00:27:56] Speaker A: Jim Schwartz, we talked about it all season. [00:27:59] Speaker B: I know, I know, but let's be clear. Like, Schwartz runs. He doesn't run anywhere near the same level of two Shell, and he plays a shitload of man coverage. They ran 37% cover, one man more than any other team in the league. The Niners ran, I think, like, 17%. [00:28:15] Speaker A: Right. [00:28:15] Speaker B: So it would be fundamentally different. It's a. It's way, way like very little cover four, very little cover six that they ran. I mean, granted, sometimes some of these, like, hard to tell things that are tracking data are bad at evaluating it, and sometimes cover six is just ends up becoming pure man coverage. Anyway, point is, there's a lot of leaning on man. There's a lot more disguises. There's like, he runs a really. Runs really effective stunts and pressure packages. And I think it's someone who has owned Kyle in years past. And there's an element to that where I really do believe if you bring in Jim Schwartz, if you're able to, and I'll talk about that in a sec, is I really do think, like, that would make me feel confident they could win a Super Bowl. Like, if. If you brought in Jim Schwartz, a guy who, by the way, like, again, understanding Shanahan, understands the rest of those schemes and is fundamentally sharp at attacking. And proactively, I think you could maximize that. And I also think, like Renardo Green and some of those other young guys, Bernardo Green's a goddamn great man corner. Like, he came in playing a shitload of press man coverage at Florida State, and you're sort of changing his responsibilities a little bit. And there's some other stuff anyway, but. [00:29:30] Speaker A: Like, you can't ask Renardo Green to cover space that would require him to remember the play. Whereas if you just go out there and cover that guy, he can do that all day. [00:29:38] Speaker B: He was great at playing press man coverage, and I think he really excelled a lot of that his rookie year. And it's not to say he didn't play man coverage, but a lot of that was playing this impossible trail technique on deep crossers against guys like JSN where you're like, all right, he's going to lose. Because, like, it's a really, really, really difficult challenge to try and do that. And that is a flaw in his game. But it's also a really tough task. And I think there's an element of evolution and change in the scheme that could really benefit them that I think Schwartz would obviously bring. Now, the thing is, under contract with the Browns for another year, do they say we're not letting him go anywhere? [00:30:19] Speaker A: Well, it's so that's so interesting because he's such a good defensive coordinator that I think anyone who would be hired to be the head coach, and of course he could be hired to be the head coach, would be like, oh, yeah, I'm keeping Jim Schwartz, in which case you don't really have a leg to stand on if you have the diners. That said, you should be working the side angles right now, everything in your power. And I don't know one way or another if this is true, but I'd like to think that Kyle Shanahan is smart enough to realize to one have realized that Bob's gone. And that has been wildly evident for the I would say the last three weeks that if the job got offered, Bob was taking the job. [00:30:58] Speaker B: Way too many jobs open. He's probably going. [00:31:01] Speaker A: So I. I'm sure Kyle has been, oh, you know, I don't want to be. Okay, John lynch. What is it you do here? Maybe start getting on the phone with some guys and doing some clandestine operations to see, you know, who you can line up should Bob leave? One of the main jobs of every athletic director in the country in college football is if my head coach gets poached. What's my short list? Who would I hire if my head coach had to resign tomorrow or got poached by the NFL tomorrow? Who's my short list? You should have a short list. And Jim Schwartz would be unquestionably one on the shortlist. I do have to throw this your way, though. They gave in so much to Bob this past year, which that's why the thumbnail on this is high and dry. Not only did they hired Bob thinking that he was going to be their Jim Schwartz or their Steve Spagnolo, where he would just not get that other job, which was foolhardy at the time, but okay, that was. [00:31:56] Speaker B: I mean, I'm not sure they fully believe that. I think they have enough awareness to say, all right, there might be some gigs out there, but it also the paradigm shifts when it goes from like, oh, he's coming off the jets job. Nobody's going to want him to very quickly, oh, shit. There's not a lot of great options and there's a ton of jobs. [00:32:15] Speaker A: So let's add in this he got to do all the drafting for the defensive side and Alfred Collins and C.J. west and Mikel Williams. It doesn't matter what scheme. You can find ways to make those guys work. I think Upton Stout probably qualifies on that, though you'd prefer him in his own scheme because he's probably pretty good at that kind of hook and flat stuff. You maybe want someone a little bit bigger, maybe a more safety size if you're trying to play man. But there's okay a conversation there. You already have a man guy in green. Lenore is his own guy, though I'm sure he'd tell you first that, oh, I actually a man guy. No, you aren't. But that's okay. Linebackers well, you have one linebacker who can do anything you need, theoretically coming off of his injury. The other linebacker spots wide open and then you don't know who the hell your safeties are. So, like, there is something to be said for. Okay, it's not as bad as this. But at the same time, Robert Sala got to draft and fundamentally rebuild the defense in the image of the defense that he wanted to run. [00:33:16] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:33:16] Speaker A: And now. And that's a zone principal defense through and through, probably to a point of detriment. And then to go to Jim Schwartz, if you're lucky enough, who is a man coverage principled dude. Great. Again, I'm on fire today. [00:33:32] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:33:32] Speaker A: Like to go to Jim Schwartz, the maestro of man. Does that screw the 49ers in terms of their theoretical roster building year over year? [00:33:43] Speaker B: I don't think so. I think there's an element of, if you like, I would rather have guys that are capable of playing true man coverage. Playing. I would call it real corner. Yeah. Like, I know that's not. That's an oversimplification and there's a lot of complexities in zone and understanding that. But like being able to actually play one on one coverage and take someone away, I think it would set them up where they would be proactive in the secondary and really saying, like, who can take on a matchup with like the level of complexity and difficulty we want? Like, you would go into that and say, all right, Jackson Smith and Jigba Pukinakua, these are two people we are going to have to account for every single year. What is the type of player that can actually handle them? And maybe you don't find a clear answer, but I think it sets you up in a way where you say, all right, let's at least make. Let's at least try and set our roster up and make a proactive effort through the draft and free agency to try and find guys that actually possess a challenge. And maybe it's just a different type of corner, but I, I don't think that's as limiting as it would seem. It is different. It is not necessarily what they've run, but I think if you're trying to evolve the scheme and you're trying to evolve the defense to be in a place where you can handle these other teams. Like, I think Schwartz would be able to help you evaluate those guys. [00:35:13] Speaker A: It's not to say that that hiring Joe Schwartz would be a bad decision based on what's happening. It just probably wouldn't be. It would be. It would be a challenging transition, I think, for a lot of guys, and it would probably create some real roster issues to where it's like, hey, you know how we thought you were going to be in here for the next five, six, seven years? You actually don't have a job next year. You're a backup now. And, and. And you see that a lot of times a new coach takes over and suddenly, hey, we got three undrafted free agents that are playing for us now. And that's not a problem because they fit the scheme. But it would be a fundamental shift, but a worthy one because it's Jim Schwartz. Let's also add in Raheem Morris, who got fired by Atlanta because he was not a good head coach. Twice now, it's proven that he's not a good head coach. [00:36:05] Speaker B: Right. [00:36:05] Speaker A: But multiple times over, it's proven that he's a very good defensive coordinator. And he is very much of the scheme that Kyle and Salah and even Gus Bradley want to come from. I just don't know how he's not. How you could go to Gus Bradley without giving Raheem Morris a call. [00:36:23] Speaker B: Yeah, I agree. I agree. I think. And yeah, you look at it, Morris is a ton more similar. Same, sort of. Not the exact same, but very similar in terms of coverage breakdowns. Like, very, very, very close to what the Niners run. And the reason that the Niners sort of gashed Atlanta in the run game is because they. They knew. And it's Jeff Albrook coordinating down there. [00:36:46] Speaker A: Like, Robert Salah's defensive coordinator was Raheem Morris's defensive coordinator this past year, so. [00:36:52] Speaker B: Clearly they knew it intimately. Which I, I also think there's an element of, like, hey, we know what doesn't work against this defense, and we showed it against you. Where, you know, see someone. Someone could argue that, like, Gus is just going to run the same thing, so why not just stick with Gus and he'll stick around? I think Morris is sharper and there's a reason teams keep giving him head coaching jobs. Probably won't anymore. But, like, he is sharp and well loved for a reason because he gets it. And he. And I also think there's an element of youth that matters. Like, when you're drafting guys as much as, like, they've talked up Gus and the storytelling and all that, like, old. [00:37:32] Speaker A: Man, like, how's that going? [00:37:34] Speaker B: I want a coach that can, like, talk to younger players and be on their level a little bit more. And I think Morris has a lot more of that. And there's such a Level of built in respect and the understanding, like, if you get Morris like that is. That is your guy. He is sticking around for the long haul because I don't care what it is, no one's giving him a head coaching job in the next two cycles, maybe in three or four or five years down the road, but he's. He's not getting another bite in the next couple cycles. There's just a level of he has had two chances and it has not gone well. [00:38:11] Speaker A: Let's also remember he got fired not because of Atlanta's defense, which did fall off significantly, but was damn, like, impressively good to start the season. And going into that week seven game, we're like Atlanta's defense, which by the way was coordinated by old Breck and all that. But, like, Raheem Morris is a defensive guy. He's the head coach of the team. He gets some credit. I think Ulbricht deserves a lot of it. And by the way, you know, an argument that we talked about on Saturday, like, why is it that Jeff Ulbricht seems to be doing a really good job as a defensive coordinator everywhere, but then when he's with Robert Sala, the defense, there's something there. Like the defense got better in New York after Salah got fired. He's great after that. You know, the Niners wanted old Brook two years ago, didn't even really interview him. He just said no because he didn't want to move all these things. I don't mind Gus, Brad. I don't mind Gus in a sort of like a Tom Moore role. Not to throw, you know, like sage wisdom from on high, but not calling the plays and not having to be dealing with the micro. Let him deal with some macro stuff because he's seen a lot of stuff and he's an easygoing guy. But if I'm talking about, hey, man, I gotta, I gotta have a hard conversation with Bernardo Green or Upton Stout or anybody that I'm about to draft about, like, here's how we do things. And like, I'm gonna be a hard ass about this because I need you to get it. I need you to understand this because this is how we run stuff. Like, I don't think Gus Bradley's that guy anymore. And you could see the level of discipline on his Colts defenses. Wayne over three years because they bring in new guys and they were just. Everything was just sort of laissez. [00:39:50] Speaker B: These are Gen Z draft classes coming in with like 700 years of eligibility in the NIL era. And I do think the Paradigm is evolving rapidly and strangely, and no one knows exactly where it goes. And there's. And again, it's going to depend on each guy individually, of course. I just would much. I think almost anyone would much rather have Raheem Morris in those conversations. [00:40:13] Speaker A: And let's also talk about what Raheem Morris just did. One another reason that they got fired. And it wasn't entirely his fault. It's Fontano's fault who made the pick. But they, they went all in on getting James Pierce. Okay, I'm gonna view that maybe this is biased anchoring me, wanting to re, you know, bring an outcome here. But, like, they saw something they liked, they went for it. Okay. As opposed to just sort of, I'll take what we get and then we'll figure it out from there. Hopefully it's good enough. Like, he's. It was an era of commission. I prefer heirs of commission. Even if it totally screws your franchise over for the next five years. I prefer those where you see something, you think it fits. Let's go for it. Because in the NFL, you are given countless opportunities to fix it. And no better example than The San Francisco 49ers, just the most catastrophic trade you can imagine. Herschel level Walker level trade. And they were fine. They, they, they were able to fix it. I want to throw three more names at you. Sean McDermott, Gannon, and then a name that keeps coming up, and I just want to nip in the bud. Brian Flores is under contract in Minneapolis. [00:41:22] Speaker B: No, he's not. [00:41:23] Speaker A: He's out of contract. [00:41:24] Speaker B: No, that's the thing. That's what he's leveraging, is that he's out of contract and is a free agent. And essentially Minnesota has said you have a standing offer to come back. He is not under contract. I'm very, very confident. [00:41:37] Speaker A: Okay. I'm not sure why he would leave Minnesota unless he can get the Pittsburgh Steelers head coaching job or the Baltimore Ravens head coaching job. I'm not sure why he would. I'm not sure why he would leave a situation where he's gotten to hand pick the players. He is a very good defensive coordinator. It is a very idiosyncratic defense that they run. It is the most idiosyncratic defense. And that. That as much as I'm like, oh, Jim Schwartz and man principles, that could be a big departure. Like, I'm willing to do it If I'm the 49ers with Brian Flores, but, like, that's a fundamental restructuring that wastes the last two draft classes, frankly, because you have to rebuild everything from the ground up around Brian Flores. And that's another aspect of this. This is why I think they'll do the lazy thing. I think they feel much like they did after, obviously they went to the super bowl but fired the defensive coordinator. We're too close to do anything bold. We're too close. We just need to maintain where, in fact, they are not. They are a third place team that is miles away from the Seahawks and probably a good distance away from the Rams. Is it helpful that they're probably the third best team in the nfc, but third in their own division? [00:42:54] Speaker B: No. [00:42:54] Speaker A: But, like, I don't think that they're interested in giving it all up to Flores, who, by the way, could probably get another coaching job. [00:43:01] Speaker B: The issue I have with Flores is it's like, couldn't be any more different than what they run. And as much as we talk about Schwartz, like, there's a fundamental basis where, like, there's a transition with Schwartz that I think would be challenging. Yeah, but not nearly. Like, Flores is just chaos defense, total overhaul. That's tricky to try and do in a year. There's also so much stuff of, like, his previous jobs and his personality that, like, that's a very strong personality that could be very tricky to bring in. I. That's not to say he shouldn't be interviewed or shouldn't be considered because he's done a phenomenal job in Minnesota, but that's going in a totally different direction. Gannon can obviously coordinate the hell out of a defense. [00:43:45] Speaker A: I like it. [00:43:46] Speaker B: He's also. Is also a tricky guy with like, his sort of. Sort of. I don't know. I don't know how to fully describe his. His aura, but there is like a level of dickish sort of quasi insincerity to it. And maybe that's different as a coordinator, but it's. I don't know. There's. There's something that rubbed people the wrong way while. Even though he can really coordinate the hell out of a defense. [00:44:11] Speaker A: Yeah, I think he got Peter principled. I think that he wasn't capable of being a head coach. He's too narrow, focused. I don't know, there's. There's some. [00:44:24] Speaker B: Oh, that said, like, absolutely worth an interview. And like, he could blow them away. [00:44:29] Speaker A: How do you not bring him in? Like, how do you not bring him in? You know that his defenses were technically very sound. You know that he was able to elevate a couple players. He was unbelievable in Philly. Right. Like, Kyle always talks about these Guys that he has respect for. Like, he was really, really good in Philly and there's a lot of similarities there. You're not. Yes, he likes the three safety stuff, but I think he's a very pragmatic defensive coach. They use tight fronts. They can do that with this 49ers defensive line. [00:44:59] Speaker B: I agree. And. And I really. Yeah. And I do think there's an element of like, wrinkling in some other. Other schemes, other fronts that you haven't. Insala tried some of that stuff early and it. And it worked. Yeah. And. And as the players started falling like flies, like he had to go back to basics. But I do think there's an element. [00:45:17] Speaker A: In this past year in Arizona, by the way. [00:45:19] Speaker B: And I know complexity and adding new things just for the sake of like, sounds fun and is. It's not good just to change things. Just to change things. Right. But I do think there's a level of stagnancy and a need and maybe, you know, Nick Bosa and Mikel come back and you. And are just great and you don't need to evolve at all and it all just works. But I do think you need to evolve, like, to be stagnant and say, like, this scheme that we've run forever will just work because we have the players. When you're not going to have the dudes that Seattle has, like, you're not going to match up with some of the other defense. Even. Even if you add in free agency and in the draft, like, I still think there's a lot that they're chasing. I think you need to be proactive on where you think the league is going and complex ways that you can attack offenses. Like your own offense has been attacked by Mike McDonald. [00:46:16] Speaker A: So that's exactly what we are in the age of defensive versatility, which is exactly counter to Gus Bradley's heyday, which was defensive smash mouth. We're running the same play every time. We're just better than you and Gus Brad. And everywhere he's gone since then, Gus Bradley scheme has not had, get this, the Legion of Boom. And it has not worked because he doesn't have the Legion of Boom defense that can kick your ass. We are in an era of defensive versatility now. And you can be, as you said, Mike McDonald, where you have guys who can just play three positions at one time. Right. You have a Nicki Man Warrior, you have a Devin Witherspoon, you have a defensive line that everybody's a tackle and an end and an edge and all this crap you have safeties that could play outside, you have corners that can play at safety. Everyone can play everywhere. So you just line them up in one spot every time. And you say, let's, let's go, because we don't need to do anything crazy. And we're going to drive you mad by not moving because you're trying to move us all around and get. Again, we're, we're good. We have the versatile players. We have the roster. We're the 2016 Warriors. Like, what are you going to do? We're switching everything. We're good. Or like every other defense in football, say, for the Texans and the Seahawks, you have to do things to make players that are really good at one thing look like they're good at two or three other things. And the way you do that is through play calling and making the right calls at the right time, being very sound in the guessing and game planning of what it is you think the other team's going to do so that, hey, we're peeling off Mikel Williams here. Is that a great idea in a vacuum? Not particularly, but if you're running this certain play at this certain time, we have a guy who can. [00:48:00] Speaker B: It takes the offensive line to slide in a direction where you are only running four, but then you're overloading one side and you get a free rusher even though you've only run four. And you're like Mike Helen coverage. And then it works because you've set it up through your previous play calling and what the offense expects you to do. [00:48:16] Speaker A: So if you're not going to have just absolute ass kickers, absolute Grade A athletes that don't need to move, you need to go the route of what every offense over the last 15 years in the NFL has done, which is we're moving dudes around, we're manipulating margins, and we're going to attack you at weak points that we create through movement and confusion and just game planning, you have to do the same thing on defense, which is the same reason why, like, is Van Ginkel in, in Minnesota, like, that good of a player? Or does his defensive coordinator just tell him where to stand every time so that he can intercept four passes a year on, on a button? Because these offenses are not as clever as what they have in LA and in San Francisco. It's the latter. [00:49:01] Speaker B: It's a combination. [00:49:02] Speaker A: I mean, listen, I, I think he's a really, really good player. I love watching him. But like you, you saw what happened when you threw him with Vic Fangio in Miami and it didn't look anything like that. So you have. You could either have the players, which they don't, because only two teams do, or you can have the kind of coordination that makes these guys look to be more than they are in different spots. Keeps offenses guessing. And on the back foot, Gus Bradley doesn't do it. I'm not sure Raheem Morris does it either, but maybe some Ulbricht rolled off on him. [00:49:30] Speaker B: There's an element of, like, if you bring in Raheem, like, and maybe it's the same with Gus, where you just continue building on the scheme and eventually you do get the dudes in a year and it looks a lot better because the defense is closer than the offense. As we both agree, I would like to mention very quickly a few other names that I think are young and some of the guys I was talking about Carl Scott, defensive pass game coordinator for the Seahawks. [00:49:54] Speaker A: Yeah, Carl Scott. [00:49:55] Speaker B: Bring his ass in. Bring his ass in. [00:49:59] Speaker A: I'd hire him. [00:50:00] Speaker B: I would. And I very least. Get some intel on yourself. Do some self scouting. Tell him, ask him, like, can you. [00:50:07] Speaker A: Quickly tell the people where. What Carl Scott's pedigree is? [00:50:10] Speaker B: He worked with Saban. [00:50:12] Speaker A: Saban's defensive backs coach. [00:50:14] Speaker B: Yeah, he. Yes, yes. [00:50:17] Speaker A: And then. And then he comes in and who do you work. Who do you work for before the Seahawks hired him? [00:50:23] Speaker B: I'm. I'm trying to remember, right? I had it. [00:50:28] Speaker A: Was it Minnesota? No, he worked in Minnesota. [00:50:31] Speaker B: He worked Flores. Yeah. So. So before that. Yeah, he was a DB's coach for the Vikings prior to Minnesota quarterback. So he's a wide range of, like, come on, chaos defense and understanding of complex coverages. Like, like all the stuff Saban runs and all those tricky coverages that we talk about. Saban. Saban was like the inventor of all of that. [00:50:52] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:50:53] Speaker B: So in terms of, like, communication, some of the finer details that the 49ers couldn't get this year. That's a guy who knows that language because he coached for the author. So he's. He's a very strong candidate that I would consider. Christian Parker, the defensive pass game coordinator for Philly, another guy I would talk to. He's got some interviews. I think Jim Leonard will go somewhere else. He's a past game coordinator for Denver. He's a very hot, strong candidate. Pause. Tem Lukabu for the Jaguars is a linebackers coach for the Jags. I just think he's a. He's coaching a variety of different roles. He's some secondary stuff, some outside linebacker stuff. Jaguars Defense was sneaky good, created a lot of turnovers. Just an interesting guy to talk to, I think. And then, then Corey Unlink, he was with the Niners. He's the defensive pass game coordinator for the Texans. The last guy, Stephen at Agoke safeties coach for Houston. Former defensive quality control for the Niners. Those are a lot of young, like really potentially capable names that would really pique my interest and even if those aren't the guys and you don't have to talk to every single one of them, but I think bringing in young up and coming guys in schemes that really were effective this year is something you have to do out of a responsibility to yourself. Trying to build to a Super bowl caliber team and just saying we like the scheme that we run. It kind of works when we got the guys is incredibly lazy. [00:52:27] Speaker A: It's. It would also behoove them to do this if they just want to hire Gus Bradley. You got to go through some hoops for me. Sorry, Gus Bradley's not. Especially after you failed in just taking the obvious answer the last two times. And you've taken the obvious answer the last three times. You have. You have to go through some hoops. You have to at least delude me into the thought that actually we talk to everybody and we think Gus Bradley's the best. Just lie to me about that. But at least be able to show your work about it. Where if you bring in a Carl Scott and you say we're not, we don't think he's ready yet. We prefer Gus Bradley. That's fine. I need something to hang you with other than laziness when this is all said. [00:53:06] Speaker B: Also, also kind of nice to pull from a rival who's kicking your ass and have some inside information as opposed to, as opposed to. [00:53:16] Speaker A: Well, we knew it. [00:53:17] Speaker B: The Seahawks ran a decade ago. Right. Remember that. Remember the Legion of Boom guys? [00:53:23] Speaker A: It does. There's a little bit of, there's a little bit of warriors happening right here. There's a little bit of San Francisco Giants happening right here where it's like remember the heyday. It's, it's, it's, it's Chris Farley, Paul McCartney. Hey, remember when you were in the Beatles? That was awesome. [00:53:40] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:53:40] Speaker A: Remember the Legion of Boom? Can we do that again? No, you can't. [00:53:46] Speaker B: One thing I want to talk about before we get into comments here. I Locker room cleaned out. Locker room yesterday there was not a ton of insight. I But there was some good stuff. Kittle saying the best case scenario sort of implying that he's going to be ready. It was high. [00:54:03] Speaker A: High. It was right under the calf. [00:54:04] Speaker B: High. Better, better blood flow. There we go. And essentially scoffed at the notion that he would be back in November. That essentially he's like, I won't tell you when I'm going to be back, but I'm going to be ready. And honestly, who am I to tell George Kittle he won't be ready? I think regardless of what he says, however optimistic you are, you have to prepare that he is going to be at best 50 of himself when he comes back. Even if that's not the case, you have to prepare. Like tight end is an immediate massive need 100. So that's what Kittle said. Warner, now he can calm all that down. Mac Jones clearly, like, I think he's good either way. I think Mac is like, if I, if I'm here another year, fine. But also he's like, I, I'm a starting quarterback in this league. So he didn't exactly shoot down the notion of being traded or that he'd be interested. Juwan Jennings didn't really comment on anything. I think the idea of franchise tagging him is not only fiscally irresponsible, it's deranged. I like the, the projected number is 28 million for the franchise tag. I think the notion of paying Juwan Jennings, I really, really, to be clear, like, Joanna, Jenny's a football player. I think, yeah. If you're going into next year and you say we're going to spread it out and we're not going to have a tight end and Juwan's going to be a quasi tight end for us in this slot and we're going to go 11 personnel all day and Juwan's going to crack down and help us in that way. Maybe you can talk yourself into paying him 20 million a year for a couple years. Let's be clear. Juwan Jennings, awesome football player, blocks his ass off, makes a lot of key catches, does a lot of great things, is an athletically limited player. Totally. He's not a guy who can take the top off a defense. This is an aging team that, that going into last season was very explicit about wanting to get younger. They need speed on offense. Juwan Jennings, for all the things he is good at. You saw when he was in the open field in that game. He can't pull away from anybody. He can make great plays. He's physical, he's tough. He's an awesome player who I love. He should get paid. Well. It should probably not be with the 49ers, a team that should draft one or two wide receivers and. And try and get younger and faster in every which way, and who may not want to spend a lot of money. As much as they might clear and have $50 million in cap space, they usually want to hold on to 20 or 30 million of that. They might only sign one or two quality free agents. As much as people want to build through free agency because they've been bit. They've been bit and they. And they reeled it back. And I'm interested to see how they choose to sort of build through free agency this year knowing that they need pieces, but they're a little scared of it. [00:56:49] Speaker A: Let's also add in that even on some of their resignings, they've gotten bit. Right. They resigned Brandon Iuk. Huge bite. They resigned George Kittle. Let's not forget George kittle missed, like, 60% of the season. I, like, I'm not saying you don't do it. I'm just saying, you know, people keep talking, oh, like, why do they get so injured? I don't know. Maybe because they have a bunch of old dudes who were injured last year. [00:57:12] Speaker B: I mean, but. But also, like, you have to pay Kittle because you've been so horrific at replacing any value at tight end. [00:57:19] Speaker A: I'm just saying that they. Even on the guys who they felt were safest, it hasn't been safe. Now, I use a different circumstance. Fred Warner, injured for the first time in his career this year in an earnest way that misses time. [00:57:32] Speaker B: Like, but, like, you can't levy a criticism against them for bringing back those guys. [00:57:37] Speaker A: I can if they're going to give Juwan Jennings a ton of money. [00:57:40] Speaker B: I agree. [00:57:40] Speaker A: Dude, look at how it burned you on two guys who were. No questions. You resign them. This guy has questions, right? In terms of his physical limitations, in terms of the wear and tear that he's already put on his body. This guy is supposed to be your third wide receiver. Now you're paying him number one wide receiver money. [00:57:57] Speaker B: I don't. I don't think. I don't think it makes sense. I don't think it will happen. They need wide receivers, but they need speed. I love Juwan. I think it will be elsewhere. Yeah. Let me go to Spencer Burford, who made it very clear he likes staying at guard. Very, very clear. He can play tackle, but he wants teams to pay him as a guard because he also understands you don't get paid well as a utility player. You get paid for being good at one position. There were ups and downs, but he clearly came out of the season healthy. And look how much Aaron Banks got paid. Jake Brendel told you and I basically the same thing. He expects him to get paid and go somewhere else. I don't think he's coming back. The last thing I want to talk about is Jaya Brown. Yes, he really loved playing nickel, really loved it, and made me feel even more insane that Jair's like, I wish I played nickel more. I really loved being in the box. I think it maximized my skill set. And I went, so what the are we doing playing Jason Pinnock, Nick and having Marquis Siegel ride the pine for half the year when Siegel is clearly the only guy with the speed and range to play true free safety? And again, the way they use D or Lenor last year was Lenor would play outside on base downs, on nickel, he'd slot inside and they'd bring in either Isaac Yadam or Ronaldo Green. As Green started to come on, I felt very strongly you could do the same where if J your Brown is your starting safety, great. Keep him as that. And then on big nickel packages, put Marquis Siegel in, who honestly could could play kind of anywhere at safety. Gives you more flexibility, more range, as opposed to Pinnock, who's just a bigger linebacker. And put shy year Brown in the box where he loves to be, where he was at his best, where he admitted he was at his best and loved playing there. [00:59:45] Speaker A: Yep. [00:59:46] Speaker B: I I still can't wrap my head around why and I and I get you would say it's too much to put the nickel responsibility on Jair on top of playing safety. We want to keep it simple for him. I disagree. I I think he can handle that responsibility and show that he could. You trusted him to communicate a lot. And maybe it's something where if you lose him, you know, playing deep, you don't trust all that on the back end. That stuff's going to be communicated. I strongly think they could have used him as kept him as big nickel and put Siegel in and that lets Siegel play, Even if it's 10 snaps a game or less. Like, that's still getting him valuable reps and testing out a theory of like, can these three safeties maybe work together next year and fundamentally change, like how we call defense and give us a main advantage like the Seattle Seahawks have with Nicki Minwari. And I don't think Brown is anywhere near that in terms of his physical capabilities. No, I just think it'd be maximizing your safeties and I. I was frustrated by that and him telling me that. I was like, what? [01:00:47] Speaker A: Crazy? [01:00:48] Speaker B: What are we doing? [01:00:49] Speaker A: He's right, by the way. This is. This has always been the issue that I've kind of had with Jair. Like, he's very, very confident. Right. Did he not reiterate that he still. [01:00:57] Speaker B: Yeah. I asked him, do you still think you're top five safety? And he said yes. He also admitted, like, yeah, I missed some place. Like, yeah, no question. But I still hold myself up as a top five safety. [01:01:07] Speaker A: He is an exceptionally bright guy. I enjoy talking to him about scheme. He has. He has some delusions, I think, that that's necessary to play at the level that he plays at. You might not have to be so forthright about it, but fair enough. It is. It is. It's crazy pills. We took crazy pills all year because we just kept saying the same thing. Why aren't you. Upton Stout has come so far this season because you gave him the reps. Why is it that you're not giving Marquis Siegel the same reps? Okay, you give him a week or two off because you felt like that was necessary. I don't get it. You know, Like, I'm not. [01:01:47] Speaker B: Let him. Let him watch and see how it's all developing. [01:01:50] Speaker A: Get his ass back in there. Because he clearly was. All the analysis that they did during the draft process, during training camp, during going into the first week of the season for not. [01:01:59] Speaker B: What. [01:01:59] Speaker A: What did he disprove other than he needs more reps so that he can better understand how to play the nuance of the game. But the macro stuff was there, and. And they were using him in weird and funky situations. He was a weapon for them. And then they just decided, now we're good, we're good. We don't have Fred anymore, so we can't do that. And so Jair. What's Jair good at? Jair is exceptional at covering the flat. He's save for week 18, good at maybe setting the edge as a. As a. He's a Sam linebacker. He's Huanga. Just play him as a Sam linebacker with the versatility to cover tight ends as opposed to any Sam linebacker you played this year. Which, another thing on the Seahawks game, they kept flipping between Wallow and Winters at Sam, and they played a ton of base, and it's like, oh, boy, this thing. If that game was even competitive for a second, that would have burned him in the long run. Just bad coordination there. How do you look at. It's funny you mentioned, you know, the big Nickel thing in Giant or I'm sorry. And Lenore sliding in and out. Well now if you're not in base, nickel, you can't do that slide in and out anymore because you can't play bass. Base is nickel and big nickel is dime. It's just with somebody who's not a dime back, you're not just going four corners across the board. That is the future. Like, that's not the future. That was like two years ago the that the Niners are just catching up on and it was sitting there. Right. [01:03:27] Speaker B: A lot of teams, to be fair, ran more base this year. It kind of crept back in probably. [01:03:32] Speaker A: Because of the 13 personnel stuff and you know, that's probably going to get overblown. I the irony was that, you know, the Niners were playing a lot of bass in that game against Seattle because Seattle played a lot of 12 personnel and it's like, yeah, but you can't stop them in base and you did stop them when you were a nickel with Upton scout as your Sam. [01:03:51] Speaker B: Yeah. The other side of the ball. Last thing I want to talk about before we get to comments. The existential threat they face, I think is their offensive line versus Seattle's front. And I'm going to take one comment here before we get into the rest. PDX Niner says I'm going to disagree about Seattle slightly that they're starting D line is here for a good time in a long time. Except Byron Murphy. The rest of the young talent isn't as impressive. Okay. I think. I think in terms of their young talent on the defensive line, I think that's reasonable. But they still have Leonard Williams and Jaren Reed and DeMarcus Lawrence and I believe. Yeah, and I believe Nuosu is locked up. I think new wos. It's. Is it Nuosu or one of them's expiry but they can, they can bring him back. Yeah. [01:04:39] Speaker A: Let's also not forget that they have, you know, Mike Morris, Riley Mills, Jared Reed. [01:04:45] Speaker B: I mean, Riley knows his pretty, pretty bad. [01:04:46] Speaker A: I don't know. [01:04:47] Speaker B: You're a big Riley Mills guy. [01:04:48] Speaker A: I was a Riley Mills guy. [01:04:50] Speaker B: I was not. Anyway, the point. The point is they have it for at least the next year and the 49ers. I. I talked to Burford and I talked to Brendel. Burford was more like. He literally said to me, I'm not worried about Seattle, which I. I would be. He. He did the thing of saying, you know, like if we play capitalize on things we needed to and scheme Howard Played whatever he said, they played it as great as a group. I'm not going to take anything away from them. They play hard, they play well, they play physical. But if we played our brand of football, blah, blah, blah. Brendel sort of split the difference and was like, you know, it was less about scheme. And he's like, I think their players are just really solid players. Yeah. They're all basically third round or higher. Yeah. I think the reality is offensive guard becomes like a monumental need. You need a bulldozer. You need. And. And part of it could be puni. Puny. Getting healthy, I think could help a lot. But I think there's a route where drafting an offensive guard who, yes, has like the physical ability to get out in space and doing some of the. The core things you love is great. But if you're going to game plan and sort of predict, like, Seattle is the defense we need to beat to have any chance. And I think you fundamentally have to prepare that way because you can cook everybody else. They cooked everybody else. They had the ability to beat everybody else. Seattle's in your division. They have a scheme you could not score touchdown on in two games. I know they were threadbare, but so much of that is just man on man. A lack of physicality of, like Byron Murphy going down on one knee and eating up double teams and destroying it and having Leonard Williams and Jaren Reed just saying, fuck you, we're stronger than you. Guard becomes something that is not just like, oh, we don't spend on guard. You need one. You need a guy who can pack a goddamn punch up front. I think to have a real chance of changing how these games went. [01:06:48] Speaker A: Seattle 33 passes in the divisional playoff round. They blitzed 8% of the time. They had a 5% sack rate in this game. They had a 34% pressure rate on an 8% blitz rate. And the 49ers averaged 3.9 yards per play in the past game. They engulfed them like an amoeba. It was just. It was the same thing we saw week 18, just sheer physical dominance and the. In the. The trash compactor from Star wars just coming in collectively as one and just folding. And somebody on that Niners offensive line and you could go down the list was folding under that pressure. They weren't. They were winning with four collectively, every. [01:07:40] Speaker B: Single rep. Yeah, I think, by the way, that play where Leonard Williams ran his own stunt, that I think it was. I think it was your doppelganger who literally told him to do that. You. He ran A stunt. I don't know if any. If everyone saw this. He literally ran. He was like going to gum. He attacked Puni's outside hip and he ran through the face of McKivitz. Because Puni sort of softens up and goes, well, McKivitz is there, but McKivitz can't see it. And then gets blown off. And then Punies like sort of half fading away and then he's through. And that was on it. On a key down. I think it was late in the first half and I was just like, I don't think I've seen that before. But that's something that, like, they are just. They're just tougher than them up front and they need to be proactive. Like, even if they don't draft, like drafting a tackle, if you bet on Trent Williams returning, whatever. You need a guard who's a mean and maybe that's in free agency. And you say, hey, Elijah Vera Tucker, who doesn't. Who gets injured every year? He's awesome when he's out there. But you know, they, they have to attack that practically. [01:08:44] Speaker A: Puni got manhandled early in this, this past game. He got folded up on a lot. Let's just go to the speed option play because this indicates just the difference between the 49ers in the trenches and the Seahawks in the trenches. So the way that it was described after the game was, oh, well, we wanted to leave one guy unblocked and we had two guys unblocked. That's not true. There were more than two guys unblocked, but they didn't leave them unblocked. It was Luke Farrell and Tonjas getting absolutely tossed around while Drake Thomas holds the edge the entire time in an exceptional way. Pharaoh blocks the wrong guy and Jaron Reed just took Jake Brendel and said, get out of here, little man. And now you had what should have been a 2 on 1 hockey style for the 49ers on the edge, becoming a 3 on 2 with Kyle Jus check. Being the guy who has to make somebody miss that. That's. That's what happened. It was actually, and this is not to toot my own horn, like, that was a good play call if you can execute it. And when Ton just gets rag dolled, when Pharaoh blocks the wrong guy, then can't block him, and when your center gets rag dolled on top of immediate pushback from your right tackle and your right guard, you don't stand a chance on that play. So that is entirely where the Niners Are they're not physical enough up front to compete with Seattle. And this sort of, oh, well, we can win with speed and angles. That's a cool idea until you run up against Seattle, by the way. [01:10:23] Speaker B: Yeah, Literally there were multiple plays where I went, oh, that's actually not anyone's fault. Burford couldn't. Couldn't possibly get there. Puni couldn't possibly get there. Seattle knew it was coming and said, we know how to prepare for this. Our guys are faster or stronger. They know how to slip these blocks. They know what's coming. And it's like you have a block where just for example, Burford has to, like, wait for, like, Trent to block someone, and then he's like, out leveraged to begin the play, then has to climb vertically and laterally at the same time. And it's just. He doesn't have a chance to get there. And there's a lot of that. [01:10:55] Speaker A: Two. Two things. Sorry. [01:10:56] Speaker B: And then we got to get to questions. [01:10:58] Speaker A: I know, I know, I know, I know. I. I don't know what you got next, but yeah. Mike McDonald's 38 years old. He was hired to build a defense to kill Kyle Shanahan. And everyone goes, well, the Niners won in week one. This defense wasn't fully actualized in week one. They had Nicki Minwari for four snaps in that game as a rookie. They spent the entire year preparing, and there was collateral damage, a lot of it. Think 14 of them along the way. They spent the entire year preparing, knowing that week 18, they. They were going to Santa Clara. They were going to have something big on the line, and that they were going to fully unleash Christmas Day 2023, whatever they had been building for the past two years. And they did. And then they get another game, and they did again. Okay, so Mike McDonald being 38 years old, Nikki Manwari being 21 years old, that's a huge problem for Kyle Shanahan, that he should feel as existential to his job in livelihood. The other aspect of this is, what does. I only say that because what does Kyle do in the off season when he does his self scouting? Oh, what did the Rams do this past year? Let me just copy that. And it's a joke, but, like, it's kind of true. What did the Rams do, by the way? The Rams, who can put up points on the Seattle defense, What did they do this past off season? They went and got Maulers for their offensive line. They gave up on this and by the way, played a lot of 13 personnel they just said, okay, we see what's coming with Seattle's defense. Because the second half of 2024, Seattle's defense was a buzzsaw. And you're like, oh, they're only going to get better from there. So what do we need to do to combat that? We're going to need to get guards that are literally out there throwing right hooks instead of, you know, trying to get the angle. We need Maulers on the offensive line and we're going to go big and heavy and we're going to conf. We're going to fight mass with mass. And that honestly might be it. The Niners need more heft up front. [01:12:53] Speaker B: I agree. [01:12:53] Speaker A: I would love it if they had the. The punch and the get out and the pin and pole and all that stuff. But at some point, football has come back because defenses have the upper hand now. In a lot of ways, it has come back to who has the biggest, baddest dudes. And the Niners don't have enough big bad dudes. [01:13:07] Speaker B: And they sort of tried to do that when they drafted Banks, but, like, he couldn't really do either all that well. [01:13:12] Speaker A: And not a bad dude. [01:13:13] Speaker B: Just. Yeah, it wasn't the right fit. Creed Humphrey. Creed Humphrey would have been a nice guy to answer that. All right, let's. Let's take some questions overdue here, starting with Gray Fox. Thank you. I appreciate you yelling. They have to get Jim Schwartz, Brian Flores or Raheem Morris, in that order. They can't mess up this DC search. I don't want Gus Bradley. He should be the last option. Hell, I hope Salah takes him with. With him. Love the Pod. [01:13:40] Speaker A: Thank you, Gray Fox. We are in full agreement. [01:13:43] Speaker B: Incredibly reasonable. Absolutely similar. [01:13:47] Speaker A: All caps. Reasonableness in all caps. Jake. What a time. It's true. [01:13:50] Speaker B: Also, the same thing from Silent. Bradley failed and Indy don't like it at all. I think it's. Again, it's the thing we talked about. It's just defaulting to the easiest option. Vincent. I've heard some people float the idea that Shanahan's practice has been unusually tough with less rest are a reason for the injuries. Thoughts? There is. There's a factual basis to this. Like they do run tougher practices once the season starts. They don't really run many real practices at all. But it's. The training camp is tough. Like Jaquiski Tart going. I think he signed with like the Eagles a year after he went like that. Yeah, this is totally different. Like I was getting rocked in training camp. It was tough every year. And Shanahan, I think, comes from the belief that, like, you kind of have to do that. Like, you have to. You have to build up the callus. The tough part is when you don't build a callus, but instead you have a blister, and then the blister bursts, and then you're just down there grabbing yourself in pain and you're sort of like, working through the season now that the seasons are longer and they've had to try and manage this. But, like, clearly they're worse off, particularly early in the year when they can't get a real training camp, which I don't know the last time they've had. [01:15:06] Speaker A: You also add in they have a lot of guys who. A lot of young guys, and we talked about that on Saturday. Young guys don't get an off season, have to do massive body transformations going into their first professional year, more likely to get injured. They have a lot of guys who are on the 2017 roster. Like, they have a lot of old guys and. Sorry, like, bad news. When you get older, you break down, especially if you play professional football for a decade. They have a lot of smaller guys, and I know that that goes counterintuitive because they are not very fast, but they do. They finally committed to putting a little bit more heft on the front line with Alfred Collins and C.J. west. That was antithetical to many things that they tried to do for a long time. But on the back end, they want to be smaller because they think that those guys can go faster but smaller, you know, you can't pull fat. And ironically, the guys who were biggest this year seemed to hold up the best, like. [01:16:07] Speaker B: Yep. [01:16:08] Speaker A: So there's something. There's a lot of things to be said. By the way, I'm sure that to increase blood flow, both George Kittle and. And Fred Warner will have on electrical stimulation machines pretty much ad nauseum. So good luck with your theories. [01:16:25] Speaker B: Yep. Couple more questions and I have to get out of here. Desala, take Boyer as well. That's his guy. I think it's the same thing as. It's like a lateral move. You can't go from special teams coordinator to special team scoring. I think Shanahan would be even tougher about Boyer given what they did on special teams. [01:16:41] Speaker A: Yeah, for sure. [01:16:42] Speaker B: Yeah. Real. Griff says it's a little damning that we haven't gotten any notifications that the Niners have requested interviews with anyone yet. They do tend to move fairly quietly, but. And. And I think it's also Shanahan and lynch are talking tomorrow. They want to have all their ducks in a row before they do all that stuff. I think we'll start to hear either late tonight or maybe we'll talk to them tomorrow where they're going with that. I think it's also there's an element of like, you know, you don't want to be like, okay, tell the con immediately like we, we're interviewing and other people, they're a little weird with some of that stuff. [01:17:17] Speaker A: Yeah, they want to, they want to present the idea that they're always, they're always on the front foot. They don't want people to think that they're ever scrambling. They're scrambling. They just don't want you to think they are. [01:17:31] Speaker B: Yeah, I think that's fair. J.R. madrano, ideally, do you dress mostly offense in free agency or draft the defense and mostly free agency or draft. I think about that we will have a whole show where we, where we do this, where we sort of fix the 49ers. [01:17:47] Speaker A: We're going to build a whole 53 by the end of the week. [01:17:50] Speaker B: I think, I think it's, you know, I think you don't want to address needs through the draft. You want to ideally say take dudes. And so I think for the most part free agency is for addressing like clear cut needs. So I think there's an element of like get rid of Luke Farrell and get some sort of tight end in through free agency. I think you can make a case for building up the. I think you need to sign some defensive tackles. I think you need some. They like adding special teams pieces that they can count on. And I think there will be a wide receiver addition in free agency as well. I think it will be more in the, you know, Calvin Austin variety than. [01:18:38] Speaker A: It would be DeMarcus Robinson variety. [01:18:41] Speaker B: They have a very specific brand. [01:18:43] Speaker A: Build the whole house out of DeMarcus Robinson's because you need like four of them now. Because it sure is how a Jordan Watkins, though, you know, would love to be proven wrong. [01:18:53] Speaker B: Yep. All right, I, I have to get out of here. [01:18:56] Speaker A: Okay, bye. [01:18:57] Speaker B: Fortunately, I appreciate you folks, but we will be back. I think we're talking tomorrow after. [01:19:01] Speaker A: We'll talk tomorrow after Shanahan and Lynch get the low down there and then we'll fix the team by the end of the week. [01:19:08] Speaker B: Beautiful. All right. [01:19:08] Speaker A: It's a three stream week. Talk to you. [01:19:10] Speaker B: It might be. You folks are in luck.