Zion's Landing | Zion Young makes sense for SF. Plus: Super Bowl takes and a personal plea to Jonathan Kuminga

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreigner and Hutch. And I cannot tell you, Jake Hutchinson, how happy I am to not be at Super Bowl Media Row anymore. [00:00:15] Speaker B: Just how was your experience? Was it everything you imagined and so. [00:00:19] Speaker A: Much less the saddest place on earth, perhaps just a perfect representation of all that ails America? There was a lot going on, man. And man, you know, for every person that you see, that's like, hey, how's it going? How are the kids? Every, you know, sort of banal, perfunctory conversation you have to have with people you haven't seen in a while. It's just a lot of standing around. [00:00:46] Speaker B: And I'll in some weird product in the weirdest way you've ever seen. [00:00:51] Speaker A: The worst. The only upside is, as the week progressed, the level of hotties got higher. Like, that was the only. Because I was there on Monday, and I'm like, this is FUPA Central. This is a bunch of dudes with front butts. They're just trying. The belt's not fooling anyone, boys. And then Tuesday, I was a Tuesday guy this year on Media Row, which was. Which was nice. I hope all the Wednesday people Yesterday, like Christian McCaffrey, know that I'm one day away from getting them. I was a Monday guy, then I became a Tuesday guy. I'm going for Wednesday in future Super Bowls, though. I don't want to have to go to future Super Bowls unless I have to cover it. And even then, do I care now what? Regardless, super bowl in San Francisco. Unbelievable PR for the city, Terrible PR for the Bay. It's like people just realize there's more than one city in the bay. They come from their third rate rust belt town and they're like, oh, my God, there's a million people over there, too. [00:01:50] Speaker B: That's my favorite part of people coming to San Francisco and being like, oh, my God, it's beautiful. What would. Media has lied to us. [00:01:57] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, right? And then beyond that, like, people are like, oh, my God, I went to the Presidio. It's lovely. I've never seen the city cleaner. And it's like, you could have taken that literally any day of the year. Like, the Presidio is always gorgeous. It's a national national park. Like, it's incredible. [00:02:14] Speaker B: So, yeah, tunnel tops is incredible. You can just sit out there and just stare at the bay for hours. [00:02:20] Speaker A: I will say that I. I always enjoy going into the city. There's not a portion of the Bay Area that I don't spend a decent amount of time in, in general, but it's Always a real pleasure to go to a great American and international city. And it's even better when I don't have to drive in from the East Bay because, oh my God. So I've been, I've been taking the ferry in and just laughing, just laughing maniacally the whole way as I work and have a Diet Coke and then I get on either like a little lime scooter or, or I walk it because it's about a mile, mile and a half to Moscone. Or I did bay wheels for the first time. Just like the bike share. Oh, that's a cheat code, buddy. $2 to just ride a bike around, Just unbelievable. Meanwhile, I'm looking at all these fools getting on their media buses to go to San Jose or all these people. [00:03:10] Speaker B: Getting on the bridge just about to say, what a nightmare. Also, also, Even if it's five, five plus minutes longer, take 280, 100% of the time because it's the Autobahn and it's beautiful. And the amount of stress you feel, you're just listening to a podcast, listening to Steely Dan with the windows down in the middle of quote unquote winter, right? It's incredible. [00:03:35] Speaker A: Now to ads always been the play. As somebody who is subject to 880 to get down to the bay, my suggestion, Amtrak, if they run over on the trains on time, I mean take Bart. It takes like an hour and 40 minutes. But like, you know what, just take Bart. [00:03:49] Speaker B: Sometimes it's incredible. You go to 280 and it's like lush and gorgeous and everything looks, it. [00:03:56] Speaker A: Looks like the Os, backgrounds and Mac. [00:03:59] Speaker B: Right. And then, and then you get to like some of the, the interstates in the East Bay and it's just, you're just fighting for your life at all times. [00:04:08] Speaker A: It's Mad Max over here. [00:04:10] Speaker B: It's just Blade Runner. [00:04:11] Speaker A: It's pretty much just Blade Runner. Enough of that. Let's talk, you know what, let's just do NFL draft stuff off the top. Let's not bury our lead anymore. Let's talk about some dudes. Then we'll get into some super bowl picks and, and we'll save the longest distance to travel. We will save for the end. We'll talk about Australia at the end. The worst kept secret in the NFL this week, that the Niners, by the way, they're going to play Mexico City too. That's going to be their home game. So they're going to play two international games next year. [00:04:40] Speaker B: Are they going to play two international games or. I think you only get one. [00:04:44] Speaker A: Nope. You can play two. What about the Jackson Jaguars? Yeah, you can absolutely play too. Listen, listen. The same people who were telling me on Sunday and Monday that the Niners are playing in Australia are also telling me that they're playing in Mexico City too, and they're giving up a home game. The Niners are yet to give up a home game yet for an international. [00:05:03] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:05:03] Speaker A: By the way. [00:05:04] Speaker B: Right, I. I know, I know that part. That they were willing to give up a home game. I didn't realize you could do. I understood it for the Jaguars because they have their residency and. [00:05:13] Speaker A: Right. [00:05:14] Speaker B: Have it set up like that. I will certainly be going to Mexico City. [00:05:18] Speaker A: That's. That's a good. That's a good play. You're a food man. I might, I might bring my one year old and my three year old to Melbourne, Australia. I'd like to go. Heather wants to go to Singapore because she studied abroad there for a year and she's like, oh, she's dying to take me to Southeast Asia. And I'm like, what if we don't chew gum? Don't you gum, that's fine. [00:05:42] Speaker B: Don't you gum? [00:05:42] Speaker A: That's fine. I'll be okay. But no, the Rams are giving up a home game to play in Australia. They'll literally travel to the other side of the world so that they don't have to have Levi's or their Levi's South Sofi Stadium filled in red. The Niners are going to give up a home game, as is my understanding. It could always go haywire, but as is my understanding, to play in Mexico City, I do not know who the opponent is there. It will be later in the year, obviously. And it's not that like Mexico City is not a ridiculous thing. If you have to fly to New England, like, why not go to Mexico? [00:06:14] Speaker B: It's like a four hour flight from the bay, but the altitude is crazy to be fair. [00:06:18] Speaker A: And they played there before it was an Arizona home game for them, the Cardinals. And not that you would know. So. Okay, I guess we've already had that conversation then. Regardless, let's talk about some draft guys. Jake. Jake. As I have been toiling amongst the the unwashed masses at super bowl media row and being prevented from entering any room Gray's able is in in case we have some sort of counterpart situation, by the way. Counterpart. Best show of the 21st century where you got alternate universes and post war. Check it out. Great show. Great shit. Jake has been deep, deep in the hole, grinding, going through These tapes, getting that first look on everybody and really building up some deep personal anxiety for your boy as the guy who has to second check all this stuff. Tell me three guys that you like or don't you just want to talk about right now. [00:07:18] Speaker B: Yep. All right, we'll start with Zion Young, who anyone who's a Hutch Report subscriber. I took you through about 20, 27 minutes, just going through the tape of what I saw. So if you want like a fuller breakdown, it'll be there with the tape featuring some absolutely moronic dogs that I'm currently watching, who made me shoot it three times. But Zion Young, I think, is the one. [00:07:42] Speaker A: Which Mizzou games did you watch? [00:07:44] Speaker B: For the record, I watched him against Vandy. That was the one. I broke down, and he looked fantastic. That O line for Vandy was a mess, by the way. I was trying to find a better offensive line game to watch, and there weren't many available. [00:07:58] Speaker A: A M is an okay one, but it hard to find. You got to come to your boy for The Mizzou. All 22. [00:08:04] Speaker B: I think we got. Wait, no, we're good. Yeah, one sec. We got a. We got a dog issue here. [00:08:10] Speaker A: All right, let me. Let me. Let me give you a little bit of Zion Young love here in. And let me change some stuff around. Jake told me that this was going to happen, and yet here we are absolutely figuring it out on the fly. By the way, if you're interested, we get Moose's food from Chewy. So Zion Young is. And he showed this at the Senior bowl, like a preternaturally gifted pass rusher. He's huge. A lot of the pass rushers that we deal with, everyone deals with, right? And this is not like it's our draft, but a lot of the pass rushers that have these kind of flashy moves, this kind of speed off the line, all that, they don't have the size. They're not operating at the same heft that a Zion Young is. And this is the difference between somebody who's a rotational pass rusher and somebody who can be a stalwart on the defensive line and play multiple techniques across that defensive line. Again, he was dominant at the Senior Bowl. It was. It was comical in nature how much better he was than basically any other defensive lineman. And there were some good defensive linemen there. It was comical how much he just wrecked, absolutely wrecked a very good offensive line class like people are. Jake, you know as well as I, and you can attest firsthand, I imagine this is Not a great draft class, but it's good in spots and I. [00:09:35] Speaker B: Think it's really good in certain spots. [00:09:37] Speaker A: Yeah, I would say it's particularly good at offensive line and maybe edge rusher, maybe linebacker. [00:09:46] Speaker B: It's a deep linebacker class. Yeah, it's a good linebacker class. I think it's pretty deep at corner and there's some safety options that are, that are pretty intriguing. I don't have to get deeper on the depth. It might be sort of a higher end safety class, but there are some good options there. [00:10:03] Speaker A: And when we say it's like a good class, obviously there's sometimes where you just have a lot of options and like guy that you take at the end of round one feels like the same as somebody that you could take in round five. Something to that effect. But. But yeah, I like the draft classes where it's like, oh, we have linebackers and you can take like 10 of them in the first 100 picks as opposed to most years where it's like one or two. Like those are. When I talk about like good class for that position, that's what I'm talking about. And obviously there is some correlation between other positions not looking so hot and in those positions, you know, kind of rising up the ranks. But Zion Young and what I think is a good edge class, I, I having a hard time finding anybody better in this sort of second non elite tier. [00:10:51] Speaker B: I think it's strange because it's not strange. I think we were talking about it beforehand. There's like a weird consensus in the way things break down. Like people are just sort of all over the place. Yeah, some people have Zion Young as like a second rounder. Like if you're going to read into the DUI stuff, that's fair. If you're extrapolating or there's more off the field stuff we don't know about and you just don't trust him from a coaching perspective, just from a guy who's going to be a professional, that's fair. We are talking about talent. There is no argument that he's not a first round talent. Watching him and, and it's like I was watching, you know, I forget who it's Texas A and M. Kid, I think that I was texting you about who some people have hire. [00:11:35] Speaker A: Mercy me, how do I already forget his name? I was just Cassius Howell. [00:11:38] Speaker B: Cassius Howell, right. He's, he's a guy where it's like, oh, he's, he's also athletic. There's no comparison in terms of like Zion Young, the physicality. I think two things that really stood out to me that I mentioned were he's got such. He's. He has such length and strength and height that he's able to engage in the run game and keep his eyes up. Like, he's able to track things in a real, really unique way where if somebody scrambles, if his rush doesn't get there immediately, he's staying engaged and able to sort of disengage when he wants. And that's kind of a unique thing where even if he doesn't win, that's sort of the Leonard Floyd model of, like, I can clean up stuff. So even if he doesn't necessarily win day one, which his power is a very strong foundation. The. The rip and. And sort of the Euro move aren't quite there, but the power is a good foundation. The other thing he has. I didn't see him on the ground ever. [00:12:36] Speaker A: His. [00:12:36] Speaker B: His contact balance, which we talk about that with running backs, is crazy. Like, he really, really just can take a shot where there's one time I saw a guy who's a sift block blindside hitting him in the side and he didn't move. [00:12:52] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:12:52] Speaker B: And I just think there's a foundation there of real, Real strong core, real strong base that I think is gonna allow him to do some things. Day one. Not quite in the same exact vein as Mikel Williams, but not dissimilar. He can play in a lot of spots along the line. [00:13:10] Speaker A: He's definitely got a better bag than Mikel Williams. He's not as strong at point of attack as Mike Williams. He's kind of a bizarro M Williams, and that's not a knock on him at all. [00:13:20] Speaker B: A little bit like Keon White, too. [00:13:22] Speaker A: That's a good option as well, just for. For good frame of reference for people. I'm so glad you brought up how he never goes down. A lot of people will misinterpret that as he doesn't have a big motor. That's totally false. His motor actually runs too hot, which I've alleged on this channel, KMBR, anywhere. His motor runs too hot. He's good for 15 a game. He does dumb stuff. He. He just overheats. He. He's. He just gets so excited. He just wants it to happen. And that's legitimately one of his greatest attributes because he also just shuts down drives. And you will see as you get deeper into the tape position young and obviously I wasn't watching it from the sort of NFL draft analytical perspective. When I watched every Mizzou game, I watched it because I gave them tens of thousands of dollars over the course of four and a half years, and therefore I am now partially responsible for their football success. But when you watch him, he will just sometimes say, now we're done here. And it'd be three pressures, two sacks, drive over Mizzou gets the ball back of which they would then waste it. But again, going back to the point where, you know, the sift block or, you know, a lot of chip blocks, he got chipped a lot. This is something that I think lends itself. And I don't know because I'm not in with the deep, deep scouting community or I don't have those level of conversations with these people, that lends itself to bend for me. And when we talk about defensive ends, and frankly, I think we need to talk about it more with defensive tackles, but just anyone who's rushing the passer, and we'll get into that a little bit. I have a thought on that later. Anyone who's rushing the passer needs to have the ability to bend and to take the hits, but continue to move forward to have a little bit of flexibility. And I do think that in this age of everything being measured and athleticism being quantified, we are. I don't think there's enough emphasis on bend anymore. And when you watch a team like the 49ers this past year and they can't get to the quarterback, what was the thing that really felt like it was missing from their past rushers? It wasn't get off. I don't even think it was particularly hand placement. It was the inability to bend, the inability to keep in motion while not being in perfect upright position to get the pad level where it needed to be. They didn't have any bend. They were very rote. And I just don't think that lends itself. That lends itself to offensive lines just manhandling you. Because if you can't bend and wiggle and move around, if you have no slitheriness to your game, there's just no way you're going to get past very strong, very physical, very handsy offensive lines and time and place where holding is called less than ever because it's just not conducive to the entertainment product of the game. So you go on with, you know, I don't know if he has the bag and powers, the foundation. I loved the Leonard Floyd comp. Put £30 on Leonard Floyd and imagine what happens then. That's. [00:16:15] Speaker B: That's A really without, without losing any speed, without losing like the, the powers there. I'm with you. I'm with you. And I think if there was going to be a criticism of Mikel, it's the lack of Ben, but it's also, he's kind of a defensive tackle and he is like a much bigger frame and we're talking about a huge frame with Zion Young. Yeah, I, I just, again, I don't, I don't see a world where he drops out of the first round unless the off the field stuff is horrific. I think he's way, way too talented. [00:16:45] Speaker A: I, I'm with you on that. The, his interviews are going to go a long way and he, in any other draft cycle, if he didn't have the off the field stuff, he'd be considered, you know, right there after that sort of lottery, if you will, kind of that 12 to 18, 18 to 20 range. [00:17:02] Speaker B: Right. [00:17:03] Speaker A: He'd be right in there with a lot of pass rushers that have gone in that range over the years. But because of the off the field stuff, which is just like student's a wild card, like, I don't, I don't know. You're going to have organizations that aren't willing to take that risk. And maybe this is an overarching comment on the Niners. I think that they need to be as much as everyone's, oh, they don't draft well, they don't draft well. I can't argue with their results and I'm not arguing with their methodologies either. Like, I'm not saying it's good. What I am going to say though is they're not in a position to play it safe anymore. They need to get high end talent out of the draft. [00:17:40] Speaker B: And go Eagles, you go Eagles of just best player available who as long as he's well, even if he is a little bit of a problem potentially, you sort of bet on your locker room and your coaching and that it's not someone who you can't sort of get in your system and work with. [00:17:59] Speaker A: So again, Zion Young is somebody that if you can take the thing that will be held against him, you can weaponize it, maybe the wrong term, but maybe corral it a little bit. Yeah, utilize it as a power. He becomes legitimately with his size, speed, talent, ability to change games at the SEC level, he becomes an all pro caliber player down the line. [00:18:20] Speaker B: And yeah, and I, and I think his, I think his foundation. You're right. Immediate impact in terms of setting the edge and figuring it out. And like he drew a lot of attention in college. Like, I think he's going to win some one on ones just in terms of guys don't have tape on him. They're going to be like, who the. What, what am I going up against? There were, there were some reps where guys just have no chance against him and he's sort of just improvising the next guy. [00:18:45] Speaker A: Can I give you one? Sorry. Before we move on, I want to give you a comp that really just popped into my head and I want to know what you think about it. What about Max Crosby as a Zion Young? [00:18:55] Speaker B: I don't hate that at all. I don't hate that at all because I think I saw a couple times where he sort of did this swipe and then, you know, the overarm and rips inside. And I think that's a lot like Max. He tried to cross chop, the sort of Euro cross chop move and he doesn't really have it yet. He doesn't get like vertical enough. He's like staying too low. He's going more horizontal than like the verticality you need to. To get through. But I do think there's a similar frame and a similar bag that I like that comp and predicated on power, right? Like, yeah, the hands, Crosby, the long. [00:19:31] Speaker A: Arms and the gauge. And then the most, most, you know, pass rushers, they come in and they're like, you're not going to touch me. Like that's their, their go to, right? And Max Crosby, there's a lot of ghost moves. [00:19:42] Speaker B: There's a lot of speed. Abdul Carter's of the world of like. Yeah, where am I? [00:19:47] Speaker A: They're specters. I don't, I don't like that like you, you could have guys like that on your team. I can't start a guy like that. Not, not with their defensive line. Not with a one gap high. Tucker Moose is over here just snoring up an absolute storm. By the way, just mega Moose. [00:20:04] Speaker B: Moose. For anyone that doesn't know, snores like a moose. Yeah, he's. [00:20:08] Speaker A: He's a, he's 100 pound golden retriever. [00:20:11] Speaker B: He's a big fella. He's a big fella. Okay, Devin Moore. Should we, should we move on to the next player? [00:20:16] Speaker A: Let's talk about Devin Moore. Tell me about Devin Moore. [00:20:19] Speaker B: This is a deep cornerback class and I typically don't love Florida Gators. Ricky Piersol was an exception to that. We'll talk about another Florida Gator in a bit. But Devin Moore, you know, I'm just Like, all right, let's just watch a corner. This is a corner. This is a good matchup against lsu. Watch a little bit, you know, some ness Meyer tape and all of their little tiny wide receivers that are sort of like the Colorado guys where they're all like, oh, if this is a seventh round player. Right, sure, yeah, sure. I'll take Xavion Thomas. [00:20:49] Speaker A: There's like 12 of them that can all go in the sixth or the seventh round and one of them will hit. [00:20:53] Speaker B: Devin Moore was a guy I knew nothing about. Just watched him against LSU and I was really impressed. He's a really, really long rapid, I think an intelligent zone corner who can play a variety of coverages. There's a lot of man match, there's a lot of zone match, there's a lot of COVID six. And he's basically playing safety at times. Sometimes he's in the slot, sometimes he's outside a lot of different assignments. I think he really understands how offenses are trying to attack him. Like he would run routes for the receivers a lot of times. Runs really well. Wasn't too handsy. I talked about that with Igbosin from Ohio State where he is too grabby during the route. He doesn't bite on double moves. I think where he is weaker is when guys snap and he's sort of expecting them to stay vertical and they snap out and he's expecting a double move and he's almost thinking too much, so that could be a weakness. But I think he's immediately like a pretty strong zone corner with a lot of the measurables you're going to like. [00:21:56] Speaker A: What kind of a round grade do we have on him? [00:21:59] Speaker B: I think I put him. I'll check, but I think I had him as a round two guy. Like a pretty sharp round two corner. I don't think he's round one because there's going to be just a lot of. You need to see more. You need to see some like lockdown ability in terms of man. And I didn't quite see that. Not, not necessarily his fault, but like, I didn't see Florida running coverages that way. And so for me, I'm like, all right, do they trust him to run press man? Do they not? I think he can. I'm like very high on his abilities, but my gut feel is like, this is a round two guy that you're going to feel great about taking him in round two. [00:22:37] Speaker A: Yeah. I haven't gotten into him the same way you did. He struck me as sort of a round three Guy, day two guys. Maybe the better way to describe it. He's not going to be for everybody. He will be for somebody. Did he. I don't recall. Did he participate in any of the postseason bowls? [00:22:53] Speaker B: I didn't see him. I didn't see him. I didn't notice him. And again, I haven't vetted some of the injury stuff here aside from CJ Allen, who I'll talk about next, who had a meniscus injury. But like, yeah, I didn't see him in any of the. Of the Senior bowl stuff. [00:23:09] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:23:09] Speaker B: But I was really impressed watching the. [00:23:11] Speaker A: Tape as much as maybe we rallied against the Senior bowl in prior years because of, you know. Well, at least they're under new ownership. Management. Ownership. I don't know. Now I think Reese still owns it, but they don't actually. It's some guy. But that's where those Senior Bowls, the Shrine bowl, even the Polynesian bowl are very, very effective because they do put players in positions that they'll be in at the NFL level where a lot of college tape just doesn't have that. And something that I have found really aggravating. Florida is always recruited at a very high level. It's the University of Florida. It's got a tremendous amount of resources, obviously the natural resources of talent in their own backyard. [00:23:58] Speaker B: It said he participated in. It said he accepted an invite to the Senior Bowl. I did not see it. [00:24:03] Speaker A: I didn't see him. I don't recall him at all. And I watched all those one on ones. So, you know, yeah, there's something there. And that's where we get into injury history and stuff like that. And now we have to do some actual reporting and soft power and such. But yeah, that's why I value those postseasons for certain positions. Like, I like to see. [00:24:23] Speaker B: This is a guy that had some injury history, which is part of the reason. [00:24:26] Speaker A: Yeah. You know, so Devin Moore, somebody that we're going to keep an eye on as just, hey, maybe there is something there. You got a third. [00:24:33] Speaker B: The tape is. The tape's impressive. Tape is really impressive. [00:24:37] Speaker A: What do you got on third? [00:24:38] Speaker B: I don't think he went. I don't think he went. I think he accepted an invite and then probably went for interviews or something. [00:24:43] Speaker A: Yeah, real cool. Taking the invite for the party and not showing up. [00:24:47] Speaker B: Yeah, we're loving. [00:24:48] Speaker A: There's a Chicken Kiev over here that no one's eating. [00:24:51] Speaker B: Shout out chicken Kiev. Do you want to talk about my last guy? And then we'll get to you. [00:24:55] Speaker A: That's absolutely your third. Yeah. [00:24:57] Speaker B: C.J. allen, a guy I loved, loved, loved, loved last year and when he would have been around one linebacker for me, off of last year's tape, yep, I am a little less in love this year, but he's still tremendous. I think he looked, and maybe it's just how he operated, but he looked a little bit disengaged at times. Watching the tape. I was watching him against Alabama and there's a little bit of like, hey, like wake up. [00:25:28] Speaker A: There is. There was a weirdness to Georgia in general this year. Yes, there was a. [00:25:35] Speaker B: It looked different last year. It looked serious last year. It looked kind of floaty last year. [00:25:41] Speaker A: They knew that they had more talent. So this is, this is a byproduct of the, the new modern age where, you know, with. You start with Saban's Alabama, you could just accrue talent to where your three deep was better than anybody else's. One deep. Right. You could just accrue it. And then Georgia really kind of took that mantle towards the end of Saban's reign when Kirby really got the thing going and people forget that. With Kirby Smart, there was a lot of questions. One, when he got hired as the, he was the D.C. of Alabama. He gets hired at Georgia and then his first four, five, six years, he like couldn't win the big one. And there was a lot of consternation for the Bulldog fans about like, is he going to be able to do it now? It's obviously just, oh, well. Kirby Smart's one of the best coaches in college football. Of course you can win any year. The issue is that they, they were getting poached by a lot of teams in the sec. A lot of their second string talent would go and play for like Missouri and you know, Ole Miss and they would get, they get poached by sort of the second tier of sec. And then their third tier guys were going and they were playing ACC or you know, even going out to low level Big Ten and even, you know, what was formerly the Pac 12. So you didn't have this depth that, that you used to have. And this was a weird bridge year talent wise for Georgia because they had been operating under the premise of they'll always have this depth. They then lose a bunch of guys in last year's draft because they had an unbelievable team. They lose Starks, who I think was absolutely critical and man, they just felt vulnerable all year and they had to scrap and fight and clock get a lot of credit to Georgia. They could have been a team that ended up with seven or eight wins with some of the talent and got Stockton at quarterback and their offense was disjointed with Bobo at the charge and like they put it together, don't get me wrong. But like at the same time they never felt dominant. They never felt, they never had that self assurance of we are better than you. And they're kind of front runners in that way. Not a team that handles getting punched in the mouth too much, which was a nice turnaround for them and that they really did handle the punches. But it's just a different Georgia team. And I think that defense is so predicated on temperament that I think it filtered into that. That can't be all of it. But he was not as good. [00:27:57] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:27:57] Speaker A: As he was last year. [00:27:58] Speaker B: He wasn't as good, but he also was still really good. Like, which is to say I just had the highest bar for him after watching him last year and I was. [00:28:05] Speaker A: Like, you talked about like he was going to be a top 10 pick. Like he was in the, the Caleb Downs territory of linebacker. Yeah. [00:28:11] Speaker B: To me, to me now he's like a firmly late, late first round guy and he's not in that tier. But that said, like I'm seeing a guy who is just a phenomenal run defender, has great size, great physicality, shoots his gap with hesitation, can play through blocks, very, very long arms. Yeah, I think he's probably like less fluid than like a Carson Schwerzinger in, in terms of playing the pass, he doesn't look as fluid, but he can move just fine. I do think it just looked, the whole defense looked a little bit off compared to what I was used to seeing from Georgia and so I think that's part of it. Which is all to say I'm still a huge fan of him. I need to watch more. I think there's a little bit of, you know, questions in terms of past game production, but I think like day one, you put him at will with almost, I think in a lot of different systems and he's going to be a great rookie. Will for you, he's going to fit the run. I think he's a sharp guy. I think, you know, in two to three years you can probably bet on him ideally, you know, being the mic for your defense. [00:29:19] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, he's a mic for me and he's, he is a upgraded version of like an Ernest Jones mike for me. [00:29:26] Speaker B: Yeah, I like that a lot. [00:29:28] Speaker A: You like him bookended. He has more flash and athleticism than Ernest Jones. But like you keep it in front of him. He's going to strafe between the hash marks. You're not getting past him at Mike at will because of the hip fluidity, which is not totally there. I'm a little concerned about that. But there's a lot of worse wills. I mean you probably think it's Sam too. [00:29:49] Speaker B: I think that's an interesting subject. Is right, like Mike and will have tended to sort of be grouped together and there's sort of differences. Like. But I think what's interesting about like the way this is evolving and you take for example how the 49ers, you know, drafted Nick Martin. It's almost like the, the mic is like the true linebacker and then the will is almost this combination big nickel person who you want to flip, fly around, deal with screens, be fast against like running backs, late releasing all this other stuff. And the mic is center of the field, organizing traffic, dropping in coverage and just like filling and eating up space and dealing with second level blocks that you need more physicality and size for. And so I do think like linebacker is getting to be very weird. [00:30:38] Speaker A: There's like go both ways here though, Jake, like, because I agree with you 100%, right? We're going back to nine year old dealer, make the whole team out of safeties. And when you hear Mike McDonald this week being like no, what, what drives me is trying to figure out ways to make the box lighter but to maintain or improve our run defense, that speaks volumes. At the same time, I think about what Sean McVeigh is doing and he's going heavier and more versatile and 13 personnel and where's the right balance there? Because not everyone can have superstar play everywhere. Nikki Manwari level athletes that you can plug around. That's, that's an ideal situation. By the way, we don't even know if the Seahawks will have worry for this game. But so it, I guess it's somewhat of the difference. We want to use the Seahawks as the example is they should probably be the example for everybody right now. The Seahawks can play Drake Thomas who is just a hair on fire. I'm covering the flat. I'm everywhere. Agent of chaos. He a little heavier, right? Like he's not, he's not, not a secondary player, but he's definitely not in that kind of Navarro Bowman style. Even the Dre Greenlaw, like he's barely wearing shoulder pads. Right. So how do you balance those two things? And I do think it will be interesting to see how teams want to go about that because there will be a reckoning for Uber light boxes. Offenses have the game rigged and they can. You're going to get better athletes on offense than on defense. It's just way more fun to play offense. So while there isn't a great tight end pipeline right now, you can find enough to wear with tight ends, running backs who can get out and cover big wide receivers. There can be more of a turn towards the physical game on offense to now counter all the athleticism that you get on defense. And I'm just very curious to see how the Niners handle that because I do believe that fundamentally over the years and we'll see what happens with Raheem Morris now they believe in what I'm just going to call a six man box, which is two true line breakers. And I, I love the way that you phrased it, which is that the mic is really the one true linebacker where you can take Drake Thomas off the field if you're Seattle and just move Devin Witherspoon into the weak side linebacker spot or you have that big nickel or you have Upton Stout playing Sam. But actually the place flips and the. [00:33:04] Speaker B: Will is like the hunter for, for you, right? [00:33:06] Speaker A: So if I were doing it my way, I would have a mic and two stars or Jackals or Jacks or whatever the hell you want to call them. I think they call them a sledge. [00:33:18] Speaker B: Mavericks. [00:33:19] Speaker A: You can come up with anything. They got cool names everywhere, you know, Broncos, whatever. So I would have two of those guys and I would just say, hey, listen, I'm going to need you to be heavy against the run. One of you is going to be more aligned for tight ends. One of you is going to be more aligned for running backs in terms of size. So that one of you is a slot guy. One of you is this. But you're always going to be at a disadvantage with personnel. Even though defense can match, offenses can usually get the advantage by having one guy out there. It's really something to keep an eye on. It makes weakside linebacker a really difficult position to, to evaluate here because you're just not sure if everyone's going to be into it in the same way that not everyone should have been and wasn't into Nikki Manwari last year as a big box safety. That said, I want to talk about Anthony Hill. [00:34:04] Speaker B: Let's do it. Let's do it. [00:34:06] Speaker A: He's a weak side linebacker. He was Texas's. I mean he played Mike, he played weak, but at Texas he was, he was there. Eraser, you and I have been long on the, the C.J. allen bandwagon. I'm not sure Anthony Hill's not a better linebacker. He's more fluid in the hips. He hits with a ferocity. He is. What stood out to me watching him is how adept he is at reading the field. He doesn't have wasted movement. And a lot of linebackers, when they are just sort of standing there, you're like, I don't know. I don't know if he knows what's happening. This guy knows what's happening. He's just not moving until he has to move because he can close so fast, especially if it's between the tackles, that he doesn't put himself in bad positions to make that play. So he's operating. And this is something we talk about all the time with safety, but really should be applied to all things on defense. He's operating a step or two ahead. He's not running to a spot and then trying to recover. He's just making the right decision then because he studied up in his game plan and he knows if I stay here, I can then take on both of the potential, potential outcomes that are going to come from this running back trying to press the edge. And I just found him to be very, very incisive. And I really enjoyed watching that as a weak side guy where the weak side responsibilities are immense these years. [00:35:29] Speaker B: Yeah, I didn't, I didn't come out as high, but that was part of. It was like I didn't see as much in coverage like I was watching the Ohio State game where it was a run heavy game early in the year. And so it's a lot of filling. My initial, like feel slash comp for him was a little bit like Demetrius Knight where it's like a battering ram linebacker who fills with physicality. I didn't see the same fluidity, but again, that was because, like, there wasn't a lot of coverage assignments in that game. [00:35:57] Speaker A: Yeah. So they didn't have the tight end pass game there. But watching, move, watch the game against Georgia. Yeah, that. He had an interception in that game where he reads the quarterback, strafes, flips his hips, gets right to the middle, covers the middle as they're trying to go to. I think it was lucky over the middle. [00:36:17] Speaker B: Right. [00:36:17] Speaker A: It was a great pick, an athletic pick. He goes up and gets it. Obviously there I'm going to find the reps where it doesn't work and not mention those right now because I'm trying to sell them. But like, I found his hips to be very loose, which is kind of a prerequisite Listen, I mean, he's out here doing the swing. It's a prerequisite if we're talking about coverage ability and if we're talking about a weak side linebacker, I mean, it's not the preeminent thing, but it is right up there. We got to be talking about coverage. [00:36:46] Speaker B: You got to be able to turn and run. You got to be able to turn and run. And I, I saw him have a lot of range, come downhill like someone who doesn't care about his well being with the sort of pop and physicality behind it to deliver and sort of consistently deliver. Unlike Nick Martin where you're like, okay, he's like really athletic and strong, but I don't know about his frame holding up. I don't really have the same concern with Hill. [00:37:10] Speaker A: Right. [00:37:11] Speaker B: I just didn't see moving back, having to cover things, having to pick up like a wheel route is something I would have liked to see. See, it's there. But there was, there's. There's a lot to like. [00:37:21] Speaker A: Yeah, I, I think that if we're thinking about who can come in and this is a 49ers slanted thing, who can come in and play weak side linebacker for you, day one of next year? I don't know if you're going to do any better than Anthony Hill. [00:37:34] Speaker B: What's your grade on him? What do you. Where's your initial feel? [00:37:38] Speaker A: I think, I think that, I think Allen goes off the board first because his potential is sky high. So I think Allen's probably off the board around 18, 19, 20, somewhere in that range. You know, give or take a point or two. I think that somebody's gonna like Hill at the end of the first round or very early in the second. Probably in the same ballpark as Schlesinger last year. Now that has. He's not Carson Swezinger, but I do think teams are much. Maybe this is me projecting a little bit, but yeah, with this class, like, the amount that people missed on him was enough to where I think there's been some fundamental reevaluations along the same lines that you were going into of what is a linebacker. It gets kind of existential. But also what is it about him that we didn't recognize that made him a second round pick, that let Jim Schwartz just take him and laugh all the way to the bank. And I don't think teams are willing to make that mistake again. And while again, Hill is not that guy, the violence that he plays with is going to be appreciated by everybody. And I Definitely think the athleticism's there. And I imagine the combine will. He'll explode. [00:38:53] Speaker B: Yeah. Again, all these guys, these are like, mostly first impressions. So, like, we might go back and I might be like, wow, he's actually an incredible coverage player. These are. These are first. First looks at these guys, and you try and get a feel for, like, what does he actually do really, really well? What makes him pop off the tape? And does he pop off the tape like, Zion Young moved differently than everybody else on the field Hill. You feel it when he's coming downhill and he really runs through people's face. [00:39:20] Speaker A: We're talking less than 100 snaps on all these guys. I would say that that's a fair. I mean, we're getting a game two, sometimes three of all 22. [00:39:29] Speaker B: By the end of it. We'll. We'll have at minimum two full games on each of these guys that we've. [00:39:33] Speaker A: Watched multiple times, and we'll be both. Both ends of the spectrums on those games. Like, we want to see him against really weak competition. We want to see him against the highest level competition. I mean, that. That Indiana, Miami, sky Cam, all 22 that I have is going to get. Remember when you used to watch tape so much they would physically degrade? Luckily, we don't have to deal with that anymore because we might have had to make another copy of the thing that that tape's gonna get used so much. Let me tell you about somebody who I think. Well, I don't. I don't think I know because it's already starting to happen. And I'm kind of becoming a pivot man in this is going to start moving up boards. And it's Keegan Trost, Missouri right tackle. Trost, much like Membu last year, is somebody who is just tailor made to play on his own offensive line. And what he was able to do off the right edge was just unbelievably impressive. And Ahmad Hardy, Mizzou's running back, best running back in college football, had as many yards. I think he led college football and rushing yards this past year. And he did break Missouri's rushing yards record, beating Cody Schrader. The amount of room that he had off of the right side, which isn't where Kaden Green, who's, you know, the $4 million man, was off the right side. With Trost, a one star that went to Wake Forest and transferred in, was comical, consistently comical. Zoo had a good center in Tolleson, right guard position was kind of a rotating cast of characters. And yet Trost consistently got to the spot on the edge, getting to that outside shoulder. He was awesome. He was awesome. He also has a really strong anchor. He'll give you a little bit of jump back, but then when he sets, it's, forget it, you're done. Doesn't have the arms, doesn't have the size. And I'm curious to see if he is putting on weight right now because this guy strikes me as just the a guard that we're not considering right now. That can really be a day one impact guard with a lot. It just. His technique is. [00:41:44] Speaker B: He's not. He's not on our big board right now. [00:41:46] Speaker A: He's not on our big board. I wouldn't be shocked if he's a day two pick with. With the rhetoric that first off, it's like, hey, man, you know, hearing a lot about Trost. What do you think about him? And I'm like, oh, I thought he was good. I didn't know he was in the draft. You know, like, I was kind of getting my. I was kind of getting dragged in a text message from somebody who is in on this stuff, right? And then I pinged it out to four or five people, and they're like, oh, you know, a couple of them like, oh, I got. I got to get in on him. But I've heard. I've heard some rumblings. This is what we're talking about when we talk about guys who are rising up boards. It's not just, hey, this was guy was around four pick, and now people are talking about two. We're talking like, who? Oh, now you're around two guy, now you're around three guy. [00:42:30] Speaker B: And because you get measurables and you get other stuff and people start talking and go, wait, who? Who? Wait, he's. [00:42:36] Speaker A: Which is. [00:42:36] Speaker B: I didn't know he was available. [00:42:38] Speaker A: But if we're talking about production, it would be hard to make an argument that there was any more production productive of a tackle in college football this past year. Like, legitimately he was. [00:42:47] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:42:47] Speaker A: With. With how impressive Missouri's run game was, particularly off the right side. And again, the cast of characters that he was rolling it right guard with. So you're dealing with. That you're dealing with again, I think it's like 33. 33 arms. But, you know, Will Campbell had 33 arms, got taken the top 10. I don't know how that's going for the Patriots right now. If you ask them, they get very defensive, but no one wants to talk about it. It's. It's merely to say that this is a guy that we're going to need to keep an eye on. And especially in a class where it feels like a lot of the tackles are guards, he might get right lost in the wash. The fact that he's already kind of bubbling up to the surface tells you that people in the, in the know, in the industry, whose jobs depend on getting these things right, as if ours don't really like what they're seeing from the initial looks and are. Are putting him high on the list of guys who need closer attention as this thing moves forward. Not just as maybe a right tackle, but also as somebody who can play guard if he can get on enough weight, because, again, the technique is just so sound. So we're. We're going to keep an eye on Keegan Trost, who is really the, you know, amongst everything that happened this week in Dieter's very bizarre cell phone, which was just inundated with conversations about the Milwaukee Bucks. Also, Keegan trust broke through and I'm, I'm very intrigued as at him as a guard and a. In a pinch swing tackle or maybe even a. A right tackle here. If I had to make a comp, I'd be like a Joe Thuney. That's where I like that. That's where I'm at. [00:44:22] Speaker B: That's a very. That's a very strong comp. [00:44:24] Speaker A: It is. But nobody goes into a draft being like, how do we get Joe Thuney? Everyone, everyone's thinking like, oh, how do I get, you know, Quinton, Quentin Nelson, and how do I get Creed Humphrey? Or how do I get Trent Williams? No one's like, hey, you know what? I need someone who's just going to have a job and do it at an above average level for the next 15 years. Except when you draft that guy, you're like, that's the best pick we ever made. [00:44:46] Speaker B: Right. [00:44:47] Speaker A: So that's. That's where I'm at. And that's. That's aggressive right now. It's early looks, but, like, with the way that you can just say, hey, are. I mean, Thuney played left tackle in a playoff game for the Bears this. [00:44:59] Speaker B: Year where they're just like, for the. [00:45:02] Speaker A: Chiefs in a Super Bowl. Yeah, it's like, was it great? No. But the fact is that it's like, hey, we lost our left tackle. I don't know. Just put their card there. [00:45:11] Speaker B: I'll do it. [00:45:12] Speaker A: I guess I'll do this then. And, you know, I wouldn't say the Bears lost because Joe Thuney was their left tackle in the playoff game. [00:45:18] Speaker B: So yeah, I'm very interested to talk about your last guy on the list. [00:45:22] Speaker A: Well, this is a name that I talked about with Larry earlier this week and. And to the shock of very little. How did that go? Well, the video's up if you all want to watch it. Caleb Banks. So we all can acknowledge that Caleb Banks, when he gets off the bus, looks like the best football player you've ever seen. I, I hadn't had any real thought of him. And then we see him at the Senior Bowl. He looks very good at the Senior bowl because he's a specimen. He's 6, 6 3, 35. I think I compared him to DeForest Buckner at the very high end. Yeah, when we talked about him earlier, I feel like this is going to be our divisive prospect of the year. I also at the same time watching almost exclusively SEC football during the season and you know, hate watching Florida football, to be very clear, could not really remember Caleb Banks doing anything for injured a lot. And that's where we got to. So he barely played last year. So then I was really kind of digging in and I'm like, Caleb Banks 24 year for Florida was even weirder than 25. At least 25. There was some finality to it. 24. It was like, oh, they're going to fire them. They're not going to fire him. 24. He had two great games. He was unbelievable against LSU. He was really, really good against Ole Miss the next week. Those are unquestionably positives on his record. That's not like you're beating up South Louis, Louisiana. Not like you're beating a Florida Atlantic. Go Owls, lsu, Ole Miss. And he brought it and he was the best player on the field amongst all of that NFL talent. Here's, here's what stands out to me though. And going back now and watching some 24 film which is the last reasonable film you can watch. He's a bad tackler. Bad. [00:47:09] Speaker B: Agreed. [00:47:09] Speaker A: An overtly bad. [00:47:11] Speaker B: Agree. There's, there are two notes I have that say finish that in all caps. [00:47:15] Speaker A: He's just reaching out, hoping that somebody runs into his chest. [00:47:20] Speaker B: It's a little bit like the Oregon guy that we talked about last year that we were, you know, I think he was really explosive. I think he went to the Steelers and then got hurt. I'm forgetting his name off the top of my head but couldn't finish. [00:47:31] Speaker A: We're talking about a one shot rusher who doesn't have counter moves and his One shot is explosion off the line. Good hands, to be fair, but yes, it's just explosion off the line. I have longer arms than you. Go away, little man. That's his move again. Incredible frame. Incredible get off. Incredible hands, Incredible length. These are all very positive things. Yep, he has very middling pad level. There are some reps where you're like, good God. There are a lot of other reps where he's bending backwards. [00:48:08] Speaker B: There's a rep, I saw where the right tackle is in his ribs and he's just, just standing like this and the tackle is like, at his pass down, Coach. And you're like, what, what's the plan here? There wasn't one. [00:48:24] Speaker A: There wasn't one. He was snatch trapping him. That's what he was doing. And then here, and this is what we talked about a little bit earlier. There is no bend. There's no bend whatsoever. I, I, I get it. I understand that he has athleticism that's beyond most big fat boys, but I don't see anything in the waist. I just don't see it. And the ability to kind of curl one's by. I don't know how to like to turn yourself into a bit of a. [00:48:52] Speaker B: Yeah, I know what you're talking about. [00:48:53] Speaker A: Like he, he probably looks. [00:48:55] Speaker B: Get through gaps. Yeah. And, and bend and deal with like ripping through and dealing with like uncomfortable situations where your athleticism and your balance sort of gets you through. [00:49:06] Speaker A: So, you know, they run these drills in training camp. They run them in practices. You have the one tackling dummy and then you have the bull ring. He's going to take a long time to get around the bull ring. When you watch Nick Bosa, it's like four steps. That is not a fair comparison. They're much different size, but like Nick Bosa has been. He's like a Moto GT guy where he's just totally horizontal, dragging the knee on the ground. You don't expect the big men to do it, but like when Alfred Collins was cooking, you're like, oh, that wasn't that many steps. Like, it's a little something to get into it, but like, you can see him curling around a little bit. I don't see that with him. Now, listen, he can go to the combine, he can show that. But I don't see it on his film. [00:49:50] Speaker B: Test at the combine. [00:49:52] Speaker A: I wouldn't bother. [00:49:53] Speaker B: What? [00:49:53] Speaker A: I mean, I wouldn't bother because there's a frothiness for him that is beyond what I see on the tape. I just feel like they go, oh, well, he's got this great frame. We'll teach him. And that is the origin story of every NFL draft bust I've ever heard. [00:50:09] Speaker B: Javon Kinlaw, big guy explosion, highlights look incredible. Lot of injury issues, bad pad level. [00:50:17] Speaker A: I don't love it. I don't love it at all. And I don't like the idea at 27 of taking that level of a risk as much as I am a believer in you gotta. You gotta go big or go home. He doesn't have the production to where you can overlook all of the deficiencies in athleticism and such. [00:50:38] Speaker B: Right, right. Like, for Zion Young, you're talking about it in the sense that, like, his frame and his power, he sets the edge. Day one. Like, that's a day one job that he's going to be able to functionally do and will be able to rush with some level of power, even if he's not really getting home consistently and has to develop and learn. There's, like, a lot where you're like, I know what that is. I can hold on to that and I can develop that. This is like, well, maybe it'll work. And if it does, it's going to be awesome. Like, for me, there's like the low end, I said, like, Jordan Elliott a little bit like Javon Kinlaw. And the high end, like you said, DeForest Buckner. [00:51:13] Speaker A: It might even. And so, I mean, he, he. [00:51:16] Speaker B: When he. Totally frightening, he could be incredible. Like, there's some moves where you just go, oh, my God. He gets in a guy's chest, throws them to the ground. There's incredible strength in his hands. There's raw power. He's. It's. It's jaw dropping. He even has like a little bit of a spin move. But the pass level, the pad level, he gets so vertical. He offers such a wide surface area to allow himself to. To be displaced. And it's like the mold is. He's a gap splitter, not a gap holder. He's not going to be a guy that's going to be technically sound in. [00:51:49] Speaker A: The body of a gap holder. [00:51:51] Speaker B: And you. Exactly, you basically, you have to protect him. I think if you're bringing him into your system where you need somebody who's more sound, that's. Which means you're just gonna have, you know, you're not gonna have enough sort of speed and, and burst on your interior, which can work, but, like, you're sort of having to protect like a nose tackly guy with another nose tackle. I'm not sure that's Going to be viable and he's going to get you beat in the run game really badly at times because he's going to be out of a gap trying to get up field, which the 49ers have loved in the past. [00:52:24] Speaker A: He's a duo magnet. That's what he is. And I will say this, it could just be coaching. It could literally just be Florida had inept coaching and he is a byproduct of that. You put him with good coaching and it all immediately clicks. I don't think that's worth the risk. And I don't know how to gauge that level of risk, frankly. I just don't. The injury stuff, that stuff can be gauged. They can put a number on that. They can get a level of confidence one way or another about how do we feel about this foot. X, Y and Z. Can the guy be coached or did they. He just have shitty coaches or both? Not mutually exclusive. Is a huge question. And I just don't know if I'm willing to be the guinea pig for that. That experience. [00:53:17] Speaker B: And. And remember your feeling on big men, their feet. He has had foot injuries. [00:53:24] Speaker A: I was sitting in the media room at old Oracle arena and Bill Walton sat next to me and he's just talking up a storm. And you're a big. You're a big man. You're a big man, Dieter. And let me tell you something as a big man, they only have one piece of advice. When the feet go, it all goes. The feet go, it all goes. [00:53:43] Speaker B: That's a good one. [00:53:44] Speaker A: And I'll just remember that forever. And it was just like this giant seven footer of wisdom coming in and dropping it. And I literally, like, I'll tell you. When the feet goes, it all goes. I have lived every day of my life since then. I have like an acupuncture mat. Have you ever seen one of these things? [00:54:02] Speaker B: I have not. [00:54:05] Speaker A: So it's like a bed of nails, Matt. It's like basically a golf. [00:54:12] Speaker B: Right. [00:54:13] Speaker A: A golf shoe stud. And so I have this under my desk and I. The entire. Every show, every column I write, I have this. Or flip flops 99% of the time. And I just have that going because when the feet go, it all goes. And every day I do my feet exercises. My feet are good. So we were concerned about it with Alfred Collins. It turned out not to be an issue this past year. Who knows what it's going to be moving forward. It's something to keep an eye on. And this answers the question, not to get into questions Too soon here. But, you know, mashed eggs. Who do you think so far is an overhyped player that everyone will have in their mocks, but we'll have people lose their minds when the Niners don't draft this guy. Has that written all over it. And. [00:55:01] Speaker B: And I do. Yeah. [00:55:03] Speaker A: There's a little bit of insider trading on this in that a lot of the expectation is set by content creators on this channel in this space. [00:55:12] Speaker B: Right. [00:55:13] Speaker A: We try not to set expectations. Like, it's just not in anyone's best interest. We're not that kind of thing. Maybe we did with Mikel last year. That. That's probably unfair. We're probably doing the exact same ball game. We're trying not to. We're probably. We're trying not to. We're gonna not do that this year. The Mikel stuff got a little over the top, but sure, that was on me. I think. I think that I could tell you Larry really, really wants banks. And if we're really getting down to the nuts and bolts of what it is we do here, what it is that this space does, we're trying to give you the cheat sheet. You know, we do. We do the breakdown so that you don't have to do the breakdowns. We'd love it if you did the breakdowns. If you do the breakdowns. Do it, baby. Equal opportunity. That's the beauty and the absolute terror of the new media landscape. But the whole goal is that we're doing it so that you can just steal our opinions. Right. And feel like you're fully informed and feel like you have an advantage when. [00:56:15] Speaker B: You'Re having a conversation. And the goal, like, for example, if there's a guy like Jake Slaughter, for example, Florida, another Florida guy, center, who I really, really hated last year, everybody was, like, very high on him. He went back to school for another year, viewed very highly. Think he's, like, good. He's fine. I still can't come around. But. But what you have to do and what we at least try and do is say, all right, gut feel. I don't like this kid. Like, I don't like. I didn't enjoy it. And you go, let me put that away. That's my first impression. Let me give it some space and come back in a couple weeks and say, okay, he actually does do this well. And I don't think it's going to work in the system. I don't think the value is there at this round. But if it does work out, here's what it looks like, because it can. Guys who you don't like can work out guys who you love. Like, it's going to happen. There's so many prospects. [00:57:10] Speaker A: Right. [00:57:10] Speaker B: So you have to try and give a framework of, like, what does it look like if it works? What does it look like if it doesn't work? And what are the tools you can use? And where would I be wrong if I was wrong about this guy? So, like, Caleb Banks, like, I'm not going to be shocked if. If he's incredible or if he's just terrible or you see a bunch. Bunch of flashes and then he's sort of injured and you can't do much with him because he's just a big man with feet issues who relies on, you know, moves that the league will catch up to after they have a little bit of tape on them. [00:57:42] Speaker A: So. Right. [00:57:43] Speaker B: There's a lot of ways it could go. I think I'm more in your boat in terms of, like, when everyone's all in on this and it. And it feels like this next big thing again. I loved what he did at the Senior Bowl. Very obviously good stuff. But in terms of the tape and actually, like, playing sound defensive tackle, I don't know. I don't know about that. [00:58:02] Speaker A: And listen, everyone's allowed to want what they want. We're trying to look at this from a very analytical perspective of the game of football, where the game of football is going. And sometimes that doesn't align fully with what the 49ers are doing or what teams are doing. Like, I. I'm just never going to get over Jake. You. You suggesting that Caleb Banks could be Calais Campbell? Maybe. Maybe I'm just beating around the bush there. But you. You threw out Calais Campbell the last time we talked about him, and I'm still not quite over that, because Calais Campbell just deserves better. [00:58:36] Speaker B: That's fair. [00:58:37] Speaker A: Okay, enough of that. Do you want to talk Super Bowl? [00:58:39] Speaker B: You can be upset. Yeah, let's. Let's rip through some super bowl prediction. [00:58:43] Speaker A: Okay. I am feeling a little bit more uneasy with the Nikki Manwari ankle injury, though they do say he's going to play. [00:58:54] Speaker B: He's going to. He'll have tore it all. He'll be fine. [00:58:56] Speaker A: I mean. Yeah. Will he be the same is the question. Fundamentally, I can't make an entire line off of Nick Eman worry. So even though, boy, I'd sure love to, I have the Seahawks winning this thing in an absolute route, I have zero confidence in Drake May to perform against this defense. Will Campbell's giving up a pressure One out of every six snaps, which is for the layperson. [00:59:23] Speaker B: Very, very bad that I did not know that figure. That's an insane number. [00:59:30] Speaker A: They are. The Patriots as a offensive line are allowing sacks on nearly half of their pressures in the playoffs. And they have 10 pressures a game in the playoffs. More, actually. And they did have, like, a halfback pass that I didn't count everyone. Oh, Drake May is going to run. Drake May is going to run. Yeah, he's also going to get sacked, like, a lot. Because the Seahawks have the 27th highest blitz rate in the NFL. They have the fourth best sack rate in the NFL. They come with four. I mean, I don't need to tell anyone who watched the Niners playoff game or week 18, like, you know what this off this what the Patriots offensive line is, which is. Ah. People are talking about Morgan Moses. And I'm watching the tape and I'm like, I'm not so sure about that. It is this. The Patriots look like a team that won three games last year and figured out that they're good. Like, it's, it's. It's. This is a horrible analogy. I probably even. It's like the girl who got pretty over the summer and she still kind of doesn't know how to operate in this new environment. They get to the. They get to the show, and they've been embarrassing. And what really stands out to me is I don't think anyone's actually watched the New England Patriots play football over the. They didn't watch them in the regular season. Okay. Yeah, I get that. [01:00:52] Speaker B: I. I'll be honest, I barely watched any Patriots. Right. [01:00:56] Speaker A: And then you watch him in the playoffs, and it's the game against the Chargers, which no one was that interested in to begin with because it's not like there's a bunch of Chargers fans running around, shout out, Lottie. Right. No one want to watch once to watch the game against the Texans. After they watch the Texan Steelers game, they're like, we've gotten our fill with the Texans. Thank you. Right. And then the second half of that game, ooh, pretty snowflakes. This is actually not football. What else is on? I don't think anyone's actually watched Drake. Maybe no one. I don't think anyone saw Drake May put the ball on the floor four times against the Texans. I don't think anybody noted how the Chargers had many chances to win that game against the Patriots in the first round of the playoffs, despite the fact that the Chargers were one of the most abysmal playoff teams you'll ever see. And I don't think people reckon people have the cognitive dissonance of like, well, if Jared Stidham hadn't got, you know, they hadn't gone for it on fourth down, the Broncos would have won. Why would the. The Broncos, with Jared Stidham would have won that playoff game. If a first half decision is different, what does that say about the team that beat them? So I maintain that the Seahawks defense is the best defense in the NFL in 15 years, which includes the prior legion of boom. That is technically not true. [01:02:07] Speaker B: I'm not sure. I'm not sure I'm there. I'm not sure I'm there. But it's Monday. It's in the conversation. Yeah, we'll see. [01:02:15] Speaker A: I just cannot imagine a circumstance that the Patriots, under their. The way that they are currently operating, the way that they have operated in this postseason, that they can move the ball at all against these guys. I just don't think that they can do it. And I do think I can make the argument full, full stop that the Seahawks have a better offense than the Patriots. The Patriots, Yeah, I think that's fair. Woefully inadequate in the other areas. Even with a defense that's playing okay. [01:02:45] Speaker B: Yeah, I think. I think the. I think really it's like if the Patriots get a few turnovers off Darnold, the run game, they get a couple explosives, like, they mix in like Traybillon, and he rips off a couple without eman worry who struggles, and they can't replace that adequately, and the defense starts to doubt itself a little bit. And Vrabel and McDaniels, having been there, have, like, a little bit of an edge in terms of just. I. I think there is something to that in terms of setting your team up for success and preparing them for what it feels like, even if. Yeah, and so I think that's the recipe. But at the same time, like, there's no rational route when it's in which it's not. The Seahawks, they're just so very clearly the better team. Unless Darnold shits his pants. And honestly, he can. He can blow it a little bit. Like, I think people are like, well, if Darnold, if he just avoids a bad game, he can actually have a bad game and they can be fine. They beat the 49ers. He played. He played badly. Like, they. Their defense is so good that if Iman worry is vaguely healthy and even without, like, I think they can replace some of that with Witherspoon and like Tyrese Knight doing some stuff. It won't be the same. No, but it. It. And again, he's. I think he meant Warrior is just going to play through it. But yeah, I'm with you. I think, you know, my girlfriend's dad is in town and he's, you know, he's like, what do you. What do you think? Lines four and a half. I'm like, there's a world where the Patriots drag him into deep waters and it's a slow, ugly game and no one gets an edge. But I. I have to take Seattle with those points. I can't bring myself to picking anything up. [01:04:26] Speaker A: Sam, first off, there is just this deep skepticism of Sam Darnold, as if he didn't just have an incredible NFC championship game against a good. Not great, but good and probably better. [01:04:35] Speaker B: Than Also turn the ball over a hell of a lot. But yeah, had a great game. [01:04:38] Speaker A: He did. But they figured out some stuff in the playoffs. Now, no one has a better EPA in the playoffs than Sam Darnold. Right. And that's cumulative EPA in two games. He's at like 27. Drake May is at minus 17. [01:04:52] Speaker B: Jesus. [01:04:53] Speaker A: It's the worst postseason run in the history of football. In EPA. No one has played three postseason games and had a negative 17. EPA. Let me throw two more things at you. [01:05:05] Speaker B: Yeah, okay. One, briefly. Yeah, I think there's something. There's something to be said for the fact that Darnold, the offense started off hot, tailed off, and then had to figure it out again. So I like that dynamic. Anyway, continue. [01:05:19] Speaker A: That's where I'm at against good competition. Well, maybe not yes, but yes. Yeah, we'll get there. The Patriots people go. The Patriots have lost once since week three. I'm going to read off the quarterbacks that they've beaten since week three. Bryce Young, Josh Allen. You're going, hey, not too bad. And here we go. Spencer Rattler, Cam Ward, Dylan Gabriel, Michael Penix, Baker Mayfield, Justin Fields, Joe Flacco, Bengals, Jackson Dart, who I saw the other day. So out. Couldn't be. I'm even more out just taking in his presence. He's not New York Knee is. [01:05:57] Speaker B: Has. Hasn't been this weird about a person in a long time. And they are. [01:06:02] Speaker A: He dresses in a very gen. I don't care about that stuff. He's not big enough to play that style, though. By the way. [01:06:11] Speaker B: Three or four times. [01:06:13] Speaker A: I stood next to Bryce Young and it's like how on earth you are the toughest man on the planet. This makes no Sense. Meanwhile, you see Patrick certain and he just towers over Bryce Young. Football's weird. Joe Flacco Humongous human being Joe Flacco is a frighteningly first off unbelievably handsome man. 2 imposing figure. He is 66250 like every bit of it. Unbelievable. Okay, I'm sorry I interrupted myself. Joe Flacco Jackson Dart two opposite ends of the spectrum for me. Lamar Jackson injured beat him. He had 101 passing yards or something. Then they beat Brady Cook, Quinn Ewers, Justin Herbert with no offensive line. The emotionally devastated C.J. stroud and Jared Stidham. These guys haven't played anybody. This is some we're going to let a mid major team into the College Football Playoff energy. Yeah, that's what this has. As I said earlier, as I've said a million times over, as I think everyone's going to be saying come Monday, the Seattle defense is the best defense in the NFL in the last 15 years. I'm going to read off the defenses in the history of the NFL that have a better DVOA than the 2025 Seattle Seahawks and the team that is in the last 15 years will shock you. The 1991 Philadelphia Eagles had the best defense of all time. They also had a losing record but that was Buddy Ryan's Philadelphia Eagles one sided team the 86 Chicago Bears Buddy Ryan the 2002 Tampa Bay Buccaneers the 85 Chicago Bears Buddy Ryan the 18 Chicago Bears were an all time great defense. Could have fooled me. Oh 8 Baltimore Ravens 08 Pittsburgh Steelers 04 Buffalo Bills above them 84 Bears with Buddy Ryan the 1995 San Francisco 49ers the 2025 Seattle Seahawks. Those are the best defenses of all time. Like in the DVOA era. Those are the best defenses. The Legion of Boom is is way down the list. They just had a cool name. [01:08:25] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean not to say DVO is is everything but like right. I I think it, I think they're firmly in the best of all time conversation. Particularly after this game if they shut the Patriots down which if eman worry plays even a little bit. [01:08:42] Speaker A: I mean yeah, our man PDX Niners like the 2023 Ravens. Who was their coordinator? Who, who was in charge of that defense? One of the, you know I'm not going to argue that they are one of the greats all time. Literally just going off a dvoa. There's a lot of subjectivity to this but like this guy's good. [01:09:01] Speaker B: Yeah. Everything the Niners do in the off season should be predicated around defeating Seattle. [01:09:07] Speaker A: Yep, yep. [01:09:08] Speaker B: I know typically you'd say, isn't that short sighted, is it? No. This is an existential problem that you have to be proactive about solving and I think having Raheem Morris in the building will be good for that. Do you want me to keep. Do you want me to. To give you some, some predictions? I'll rattle a few off. [01:09:27] Speaker A: I want to hear these. [01:09:29] Speaker B: Okay. So I'll give you two and then I will let you guess the other one. So one. [01:09:36] Speaker A: Okay. [01:09:37] Speaker B: Cleavon Chase on gets a sack. [01:09:39] Speaker A: Okay. [01:09:42] Speaker B: Big Kalavon Chase. Okay. 2. Cooper cup throws a pass. [01:09:49] Speaker A: Ooh. [01:09:51] Speaker B: I don't know if he's the one that's going to do that, but I had to predict somebody to throw a pass and I actually, as I'm saying it out loud, don't believe that's going to happen at all. But I'm going to, I'm going to stick with it. [01:10:01] Speaker A: I love the bet of a non quarterback throwing a pass. I think it would be Kenneth Walker. [01:10:10] Speaker B: He's a little short. It's usually a receiver. Yeah. [01:10:13] Speaker A: I think it would be a pitch out to the right drag. [01:10:17] Speaker B: Yeah. Okay. This brings me to. I have a, I have one bet. One bet that I, I wanted to place this year. It's a prop bet. It's the same bet and that. And there are two players that I've been the same thing. It's so. It's okay, you know, take. It's not like overall tackles, but for example, you know, like Ernest Jones and Tyrese Knight over something like that. [01:10:43] Speaker A: It's going to be Eric Saubert over on receptions. [01:10:48] Speaker B: The right player. You're. You're on the right anytime. [01:10:51] Speaker A: Touchdown for Eric. Sovereign. [01:10:53] Speaker B: First touchdown either to Jake Bobo or Eric. You're right about Sovereign. I love that you got that. [01:11:00] Speaker A: I love that you gave me a. You didn't hint at anything, but you were so excited to. You mentioned this right before we came on the air and about 20 seconds ago I'm like, oh, he's excited because it's sober. And anytime. Sovereign, there's 14 text messages that you and I send each other. Eric Sabert memes. It's. It's sober or Jake Bobo with his 540. [01:11:22] Speaker B: I'm telling you, they get down in the red zone, they go Jake Bobo or double pass to Eric Sauber. [01:11:32] Speaker A: I can I tell you that the dumbest thing that I heard on radio row, which is really safe. [01:11:38] Speaker B: I would love to hear it because you hear some things that you did not believe could be uttered, let alone thought in this. [01:11:47] Speaker A: Who is the. So. And I actually think that Larry, this was with Dave Softy Mahler and he's like, you know, I was really excited about Jalen Milroe. I thought they'd have the tush push and then the tush push would be there and then he'd be great at the tush push, but he can't do anything, can't stay on the field. He's just going on and on and on. They don't, they don't have any goal line stuff. And I'm like, don't they run their tight end as their quarterback on that? And isn't that like the most effective play in football this past year? [01:12:14] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. They use Barner. Barner, yeah. Touch pushes for it. [01:12:18] Speaker A: So here's, here's my. I don't, I don't advocate any of this, but if I had a prop bet, I'm going, AJ Barner, anytime. Touchdown. [01:12:27] Speaker B: Love it. [01:12:29] Speaker A: Because some point you're at the one yard line and you're like, okay, we're running the touchdown or get in there. [01:12:33] Speaker B: Baby, get in there. [01:12:36] Speaker A: I do think that if we had to get down into the nitty gritty, how Clint Kubiak moves around JSN to avoid Gonzalez will be very telling. And how the Patriots try to line up Milton Williams against Anthony Bradford will be very telling. If I, if I had to pick an angle as to how the Patriots win, it's because they somehow win both of those matchups. But I just hate the Patriots linebackers. I think their second year is really weak. [01:13:05] Speaker B: I think they don't have a true pass rusher. Too shifty. And they move them around well enough that like Gonzalez isn't gonna. And even if they do like, I think JSN is gonna win some against Gonzalez. Yeah. [01:13:16] Speaker A: No. Js like, Gonzalez is a very good player. He's not like that. He's not like, I can shut down. JSN level might be famous last words, but I don't believe that. [01:13:26] Speaker B: All right, it's. It's time for questions. Time for questions. From silent. We're just going to go in order here. I'll be pissed if they pass on all the six, four wide receivers in the draft. I haven't gotten deep enough into them. I tend to receivers, I tend to actually whatever people. Whenever people get excited about it, a really tall wide receiver, I tend to go in the opposite direction. I will say there is a guy from Michigan who is a seventh round undrafted prospect. I want to say Donovan McCully. Donovan who was a he played for he was in like the American bowl and then it was like a late add to the Senior bowl and ended up leading the Senior bowl with four catches for 30 yards. He went against Igbosin and Ohio State and I saw some very, very clean, smooth route running from a big wide receiver who made some nice plays with a quarterback in Bryce Underwood who is intent on making him fight for his life to catch a ball when he had 15 yards of separation. Again, freshman quarterback give him some time. [01:14:35] Speaker A: Yeah, I don't know. Well, he's getting paid already, so he's got to pay off that investment at some point. Boston out of Washington is going to be a name that's going to get a lot of love from certain communities. I haven't watched them yet, so we'll find out. [01:14:51] Speaker B: Washington receivers scare me in general, as well they should, except for the the guy who's on the Bucks who I liked a lot and turned out to be pretty good before he Yep. Before he had was a rough concussion anyway. Yeah, moving on. PDX49ER the super chat is an incentive to continue not talking about substation pseudoscience called Rational Football Analysis for weirdos by weirdos. Thank you very much. As I said on Twitter, I would rather eat a battery than write about that. And I understand why people are doing it. You've got your editors telling you what to write about. It's a national stage. Shut up about stupid shit is my only take. Let's talk about stuff that matters. There are unifying Factors with the 49ers Strength and Conditioning staff and maybe look at concrete things that affect players rather than pseudoscience. And just in general, this is a a time that people like to go into hokey weird shit that has no foundation in reality. I think it's important to talk about things that are concrete and logical and shout down stupid stuff when it's obviously stupid. So that's my opinion. [01:16:04] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm with you. I think pivoting to Rogan is is a pretty good tell for anybody in the content creation space that because there is a inherent murkiness because why would anyone study something that doesn't present a clear and present danger Right when there's an inherent murkiness that can be weaponized as just curiosity. But what it is is it's disingenuousness because you don't actually believe anything. You're just asking questions. That is a telltale questions here. Just doing my asking questions. But what are You. Why are you asking the question? Incentives, attention and something that is inherently bizarre or quizzical. It commands attention. I'll also say this. I think that there are a lot of very sharp nor normal human beings, even above average intelligence in a football locker room. I'm not painting with a broad brush on this, but there are also some of the dumbest motherfuckers you've ever met in your life in those rooms and. [01:17:09] Speaker B: And brutal sport where any possible edge you could have matters. And so for them to be like, well, I should. I mean, does it matter? I don't know. It's a totally fair question to go, well, people are telling me about this. Should I think about it? [01:17:22] Speaker A: Sure. [01:17:22] Speaker B: Like, and find out. But, like, the general narrative and people going, who like, I. I'm gonna lose my mind. We're gonna move on. [01:17:30] Speaker A: No, I'll say this before we move on. There are people who live there right next to the stadium, and they're not bothered by the electrical substation. They're. [01:17:44] Speaker B: Well, that's because. That's because they are electrified and they have become one. [01:17:48] Speaker A: Oh, right. Okay. That. That makes sense. That checks. [01:17:52] Speaker B: That's why you see people levitating around Santa Clara. And sometimes they have to shut down the airport because people get too high above their homes. Just from the. [01:17:59] Speaker A: I just forgot that everyone turned into Mr. Manhattan or Dr. Man. [01:18:02] Speaker B: The 5G, bro. [01:18:04] Speaker A: It is 5G, by the way. Christian McCaffrey saying 5G. This stuff isn't unimportant. It's like, buddy, I can't Turning off. [01:18:11] Speaker B: His WI fi and I can't deal with it. He's turning, not turning off his home WI fi. I think he's just turning off on his phone. Anyway, Mark Salas. If Zion tests well at the combine, no way the 49ers get him. I think there's a way. I think the off the field stuff, but yeah, I think if he tests incredibly well, which he will. I think there's. He's probably more like 15 to 25, probably out of the Niners round. But. But he could. He could be there. He could be there. [01:18:36] Speaker A: He could. It does seem a lot. There's a lot of moving parts. It's more unlikely than likely, right? [01:18:47] Speaker B: Jorge luis satello, greens from 305. Y' all are becoming my favorite 49ers channel. Appreciate you as always. How do I get over my canes? Losing the chip. Go Seahawks. I've lived in Boston for a few years and enough of them winning championships. I am on the same page in terms Of I grew up on the east coast and I understand Niners fans being nauseated by me saying this, but I don't think anything good should happen to Patriots fans for a long time. I don't think. I don't think they've earned it. You need to suffer a little bit more. And for a team in Seattle that has like objectively built an incredible roster and an incredible scheme and probably is deserving of that, again, you have to prove it in the game. But like, I. That would be pretty annoying. I'm going to be watching it with some Boston sports fans. [01:19:33] Speaker A: By the way, by the way, if the Patriots beat the Seahawks in the Super Bowl, a Patriots team that just hasn't proved anything to anybody all year, if they win the super bowl, that doesn't like, invalidate the Seahawks wins over the 49ers, in fact, it makes them look worse. You know, I understand it's not transitive property championship, but like, you don't want the Patriots, who you should consider yourself better than to win, not just for the narrative aspects of all of it, but strictly because that makes you look even worse than you already looked. Agreed. So if you're trying to save some face, you want Seattle to go down as one of the all time dominant forces and who could have possibly have stood up to them in their moment of championship glory? So it doesn't really matter. Y' all can. Y' all can root for whomever you want. You don't have to root for anybody is another option that you can do. You can just watch the game. You can be in it solely for the culture war of the halftime show because there's no disingenuous actors over there. You don't have to watch. You don't have to watch. No one's forcing you to. I'm going to watch it because I like football played at the highest level and frankly, I only think I'm going to get that from one team on Sunday. [01:20:43] Speaker B: I agree. Last thing we should talk about, Jonathan Kaminga. What? [01:20:48] Speaker A: We could talk about it. [01:20:50] Speaker B: I. Oh, what an era. What an era. What an incredible player. Who will the. Who will warriors fans talk about now? What will they do with themselves? [01:21:00] Speaker A: Oh, they're just going to bitch about Draymond and Pajemski. Now I have four words. I told you so. Those are the only words that I'm going to say about all of this. [01:21:09] Speaker B: About the. How about the narrative. Him being. Him landing there, being like, well, I didn't really expect to land here. I don't. Shut up. Maybe Go, go, go. [01:21:18] Speaker A: Play. Well, he doesn't expect anything. He hands it all to his agent. His agent's one of the biggest gnome schools I've ever met in the NBA. [01:21:27] Speaker B: That media. That media tour over the summer is one of the craziest things I've ever witnessed. I'm. [01:21:32] Speaker A: Turner deserves all of the bad things that are happening for him, and I legitimately mean this. Jonathan Kaminga, as I have advocated. This is me talking to you, jk. I think you're a sharp young man with tremendous talent and potential. You gotta fire him. Yeah, I got. I got 10. I can get you Bill Duffy's number in 20 seconds. You just have to can your guy. You have to can your guy. He ain't helping you. He is so, so bad at this. And whatever deficiencies I might think you have as a basketball player, they are amplified by your representation being wholly inept. Not just, hey, you don't have this part of your game, you know. Wholly inept at his job. There's a reason you're his biggest client. His second biggest client is Terry Rozier, by the way. And jk, I want the best for you, buddy. Can them. [01:22:29] Speaker B: I think that's a good place to end the show. [01:22:30] Speaker A: Going to can the show right now. Talk to you next week. Bye.